[Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury

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Smellybelly
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#21 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:50 am

DokB wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 am
I would never trust the tooltips tbh. Penril's spreadsheet test with the approriate tactics gives us a fairly good idea on what the damage is for each tank melee channel ability. The test clearly shows GBF sucking major ass and would greatly benefit from a base damage increase per damge tick. The effect (whether it be crit chance/armor ignore/whatever) can always be discussed later and isn't as important as the issue with GBF damage.
Never seen that spreadsheet, do you have a link?

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charlysixb
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#22 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 am

Smellybelly wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:50 am
DokB wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 am
I would never trust the tooltips tbh. Penril's spreadsheet test with the approriate tactics gives us a fairly good idea on what the damage is for each tank melee channel ability. The test clearly shows GBF sucking major ass and would greatly benefit from a base damage increase per damge tick. The effect (whether it be crit chance/armor ignore/whatever) can always be discussed later and isn't as important as the issue with GBF damage.
Never seen that spreadsheet, do you have a link?
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Smellybelly
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#23 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:05 am

charlysixb wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 am
Smellybelly wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:50 am
DokB wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 am
I would never trust the tooltips tbh. Penril's spreadsheet test with the approriate tactics gives us a fairly good idea on what the damage is for each tank melee channel ability. The test clearly shows GBF sucking major ass and would greatly benefit from a base damage increase per damge tick. The effect (whether it be crit chance/armor ignore/whatever) can always be discussed later and isn't as important as the issue with GBF damage.
Never seen that spreadsheet, do you have a link?
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Interesting, i assume thats from before the BG buffs? I cant remember if EB was one of the buffs or not though

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DokB
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#24 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:12 am

The only thing that isn't up to date on that spreadsheet AFAIK is the Oppressive Blows/Relentless change for Chosen which happened after.
Not sure what EB buffs you're talking about. I think Malice tree had the KD inserted at 9 and EB dropped to 4 points where Blade of Ruin got thrown in the trash. It's mainly used as a quick hate generator. Amusingly it still does more damage than GBF. :)
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Smellybelly
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#25 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:30 am

DokB wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:12 am
The only thing that isn't up to date on that spreadsheet AFAIK is the Oppressive Blows/Relentless change for Chosen which happened after.
Not sure what EB buffs you're talking about. I think Malice tree had the KD inserted at 9 and EB dropped to 4 points where Blade of Ruin got thrown in the trash. It's mainly used as a quick hate generator. Amusingly it still does more damage than GBF. :)
I see, thanks :)

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Tesq
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#26 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 am

well interesting then if you remove the crit bonus during the channeling and make it even in number of hits with other channeling (just add 1 hit more during channeling) you end with similar number of BG, so if you add one hit more it get

980 of IB VS 971 of BG

then bg can have hate build and ib can have a crit min increase since at 100 it gona overwrite the AF buff by 10%

basically make whole channeling dmg in line by add more
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Smellybelly
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#27 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:05 am

Tesq wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 am
well interesting then if you remove the crit bonus during the channeling and make it even you end with similar number of BG, so if you add one hit more it get

980 of IB VS 971 of BG

then bg can have hate build and ib can have a crit min increase since at 100 it gona overwrite the AF buff by 10%

basically make whole channeling dmg in line by add more
The issue between the two though is for BG it's just a rage filler, and for the IB its not even that due to the mechanic. Even if you make em equal i mean.

AxelF
Posts: 132

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#28 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:29 am

Tesq wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 am
well interesting then if you remove the crit bonus during the channeling and make it even in number of hits with other channeling (just add 1 hit more during channeling) you end with similar number of BG, so if you add one hit more it get

980 of IB VS 971 of BG

then bg can have hate build and ib can have a crit min increase since at 100 it gona overwrite the AF buff by 10%

basically make whole channeling dmg in line by add more
Except EB is a 5 point ability and GBF is a 13 point ability... Plus it's a crit bonus for the length of the channel only, not a crit bonus for X seconds like AF so removing the crit bonus during channeling makes the skill entirely worthless.

I'd say the best change to the skill would be to add a CD increaser - increases enemy's CD by 5 seconds for 10 seconds - though as GBF currently only has a downtime of 5 seconds its own CD would need to be increased, maybe to 15 seconds given its position at 13 points in the tree.

To be honest though the best use of the ability would still probably be to break the channel after 1 hit to apply the debuff and then use some better attacks!

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Ramasee
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#29 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:41 pm

Penril's test isn't as accurate as it could be. Crits have variable damage, and he included crits in the numbers for the channels. For instance SM ED doesnt have a higher damage 5th tick nor does the KotBS MF. Tanks have varying base stats from each other as well so stripping naked does not create parity between classes. He did include the different things each tank can bring, but he included them in his test results.

To better understand the difference between the channels and the builds that can support them, we should first break down the individual abilities formulas. Then compare those formula's modifiers with various things each tank can bring to improve the damage of the channel, location of channel on tree, and other utility that spec can bring.

I can start with swordmaster and knight of the blazing sun's formula modifiers as I have those classes at 40. I have to wait for my guildmates to wake up before I can have them get me the formulas for the other 4 tanks' channels.

Swordmaster: Ether Dance
5 hits, Spirit Damage, No AP, Perfect Balance Required
Base Damage (rank 25): 190 per hit (950 total)
Strength Modifier: 0.15 (0.75)
Weapon DPS Modifier: 1.125 (5.625)

Knight: Myrmidia's Fury
6 hits, Phys Damage, 75AP
Base Damage: 75 (450)
STR Mod: 0.1 (0.6)
DPS Mod: 0.75 (4.5)

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Tesq
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#30 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:03 pm

AxelF wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:29 am
Tesq wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 am
well interesting then if you remove the crit bonus during the channeling and make it even in number of hits with other channeling (just add 1 hit more during channeling) you end with similar number of BG, so if you add one hit more it get

980 of IB VS 971 of BG

then bg can have hate build and ib can have a crit min increase since at 100 it gona overwrite the AF buff by 10%

basically make whole channeling dmg in line by add more
Except EB is a 5 point ability and GBF is a 13 point ability... Plus it's a crit bonus for the length of the channel only, not a crit bonus for X seconds like AF so removing the crit bonus during channeling makes the skill entirely worthless.

I'd say the best change to the skill would be to add a CD increaser - increases enemy's CD by 5 seconds for 10 seconds - though as GBF currently only has a downtime of 5 seconds its own CD would need to be increased, maybe to 15 seconds given its position at 13 points in the tree.

To be honest though the best use of the ability would still probably be to break the channel after 1 hit to apply the debuff and then use some better attacks!
a cd increase is alredy present on mid mastery and some birds tell me mid mastery is not that used so instead make it even less so to be maybe is better something else.
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-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

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