Archtype Morales: MDPS

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:36 pm

I figured with the discussion around redesigning morales, perhaps we should start at the archtype level and balance the archtypes. Then we can look at the 7 "unique" morales each class has after that. We'd also want to split up the discussion between the 5 archtypes (yes 5). My suggestions for each category try to balance many of things brought up in the other thread, but as always lets discuss!

This is the melee dps section of archtypal morale balances. All classes that have a direct damage morale (m1-m3) in this category would need to have it redesigned. Sever Nerve and Relentless Assault do their full damage after 3s to allow for defensive morale counter-play, but can still burst down targets if they do not pop morales.

Sever Nerve: Debuff your target, after 3s they take 1200 morale damage.
Confusing Movements: Same
Class Specific M1: Looked at individually

Class Specific M2: Looked at individually
Move broad swings to M2
Force of Will: (Redesign, so obviously would love more ideas) Reset the cooldown on charge (or stealth) and the anti- snare root ability.

Class Specific M3: Looked at individually
Relentless Assault: (Redesign)Debuff all enemies with 30ft of you, after 3s they take 1200 morale damage.

Frenzied Slaughter: Admittedly I don't play mdps, so I would prefer input here if this is valuable.
Mastery Specific M4s: Looked at individually

Edit: Added redesign tag to RA
Last edited by Ramasee on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dansari
Posts: 2479

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:32 pm

Opening. Let's just discuss the archetype morales rather than delving into any class specific morales yet.
<Salt Factory>

Dansarann / SW
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Dansaren / BW
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Dansari / WH

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Tesq
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Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#3 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:14 pm

serve nerve is st m1 it is a fine moral both in rvr and in sc and is a very good contendor with def m1 for all melee i dont think it should be touch

relentless assoult is not a dmg moral in first place so idk what you are refeing too.

m4 never get use because all melee use their owm m2. which are all offensive morales.

chopp/slayer proc moral
wl/mara 1200 aoe (1 channeling / 1 ista)

problems on melee and ranged damages dealers are on racial m2 not on core archtype.
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#4 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:25 pm

Tesq wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:14 pm
serve nerve is st m1 it is a fine moral both in rvr and in sc and is a very good contendor with def m1 for all melee i dont think it should be touch

relentless assoult is not a dmg moral in first place so idk what you are refeing too.

m4 never get use because all melee use their owm m2. which are all offensive morales.

chopp/slayer proc moral
wl/mara 1200 aoe (1 channeling / 1 ista)

problems on melee and ranged damages dealers are on racial m2 not on core archtype.
Only change to sever nerve is a 3s delay on its damage. You pop it, 3s later target takes the full damage (1200). This is to allow the counterplay with defensive morales.

I forgot the (redesign) tag on relentless assault. Sorry about that. I'll fix it.

Yes the problems ARE on the class M2s. The problem with the morale balance is across all classes. Best to change the archtype morales to even out what we expect all classes to be able to bring on a basic level, and allow the class specific ones to be flavored towards the class.

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catholicism198
Posts: 918

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#5 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:48 pm

I don't understand why you would want to add more ae damaging morales, when ae damaging morales are the issue.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#6 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 pm

catholicism198 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:48 pm
I don't understand why you would want to add more ae damaging morales, when ae damaging morales are the issue.
The issue is the counter play as it stands is significantly harder to pull off than the dumping. (See the other thread about changing rates for those counterplays.) The second issue is the disparity in which classes have access to these morales creating a large number of BWs and Maras, leaving out things like Engis and Sorcs bc they don't have the morales even if they have good toolkits otherwise.

Giving all DPS a AoE damage morale at M3 slows down the rate they are dropped, and solves issue 2.

The fact they deal delayed damage combined with some of the healer/tank morale changes allows for an easier counterplay within a small window can solve issue one. With tweaks of course. Delayed Damage cannot be countered with healing like DoT morales could be, but it can be countered by morale damage reductions and morale bubbles.

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catholicism198
Posts: 918

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#7 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 pm
catholicism198 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:48 pm
I don't understand why you would want to add more ae damaging morales, when ae damaging morales are the issue.
The issue is the counter play as it stands is significantly harder to pull off than the dumping. (See the other thread about changing rates for those counterplays.) The second issue is the disparity in which classes have access to these morales creating a large number of BWs and Maras, leaving out things like Engis and Sorcs bc they don't have the morales even if they have good toolkits otherwise.

Giving all DPS a AoE damage morale at M3 slows down the rate they are dropped, and solves issue 2.

The fact they deal delayed damage combined with some of the healer/tank morale changes allows for an easier counterplay within a small window can solve issue one. With tweaks of course. Delayed Damage cannot be countered with healing like DoT morales could be, but it can be countered by morale damage reductions and morale bubbles.
Counter play and fixing AE burst morale abilities are one in the same.
...and giving mdps a AE damage morale will not fix the issue, as the issue is class specific m2, which is not something being discussed on this topic.

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adamthelc
Posts: 631

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#8 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:20 pm

I don't think a single target low damage melee morale needs any counterplay. I don't think sever nerve needs to be changed.

Force of will needs a change and that's not bad. But instead of resseting CDs I would just make it a charge and make you immune to snare/root while charging. WE and WHs would get the same thing.

Not a huge fan of the Relentless Assault proposal, considering the proposal to caster M3. Just seems to homogenized. Instead of giving more choices it would be giving everyone the same choice. My personal taste is I like a lit bit of variety even if its not totally balanced.

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Ravenfox
Posts: 44

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#9 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:22 pm

might aswell make the aoe morales morale 4 since m3 has some unique abilities that give a nice option such as WE crit buff and broad swings
then maybe make sever nerve m2 and relentless strike m1
or even put DR's on the morales so that smaller premades cant abuse aoe morales and wipe larger forces

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catholicism198
Posts: 918

Re: Archtype Morales: MDPS

Post#10 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:23 pm

o.O?

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