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Archtype Morales: Tanks

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:37 pm

I figured with the discussion around redesigning morales, perhaps we should start at the archtype level and balance the archtypes. Then we can look at the 7 "unique" morales each class has after that. We'd also want to split up the discussion between the 5 archtypes (yes 5). My suggestions for each category try to balance many of things brought up in the other thread, but as always lets discuss!

This is the tank section of archtypal morale balances. All classes that have a direct damage morale (m1-m3) in this category would need to have it redesigned. Swapped out Distracting Bellow and Raze because ALL AoE damage morales (in these suggestions) are M3 or higher, but some defensive ones are M2. Any morales here that are absorbs should also block morale damage. Had to nerf distracting bellow some to match its new position. Raze's channel allows for decent counterer play, and its larger radius is warranted bc it deals the least damage.

Class Specific M1: Looked at individually
Champion's Challenge: Same
Demolishing Strike: Same

Class Specific M2: Looked at individually
Distracting Bellow: Moved to m2, reduced to 35% damage mitigation for 10s, but effects morale damage as well.
Shield Wall: Same

Class Specific M3: Looked at individually
Raze: Same

Mastery Specific M4: Looked at individually
Immaculate Defense: Same except now effects morale damage. (I think it may be a touch overpowered with new morale rates, however)

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dansari
Posts: 2479

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Opening. Let's just discuss the archetype morales rather than delving into any class specific morales yet.
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Tesq
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Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#3 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:46 pm

idk what it can be discuss here where raze can be aoe interrupt and m4 do nothing vs off morales...

unless someone wanna debate raze doing too many dmg even if is a channeling.

def m3 lowered into m2 would basically buff ch/bo in small scale.....and raze m3 would do more harm do des comps than to orders in oRvR.
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#4 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:20 pm

Tesq wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:46 pm
idk what it can be discuss here where raze can be aoe interrupt and m4 do nothing vs off morales...

unless someone wanna debate raze doing too many dmg even if is a channeling.

def m3 lowered into m2 would basically buff ch/bo in small scale.....and raze m3 would do more harm do des comps than to orders in oRvR.
I stated that M4 would be changed to work against offensive morales. Also you have ~3s to act after you get hit by morale dumps before the damage would hit. (See dps archtype morales)

All AoE damage morales moved to M3. Raze has the largest AoE size and can be interrupted. For this strength and weakness, it got to stay the same rather than have a delayed damage.

Defensive M3 would be taking a nerf to effectiveness. I listed 35% instead of 50% (but reduces morale damage), but would love feed back on that number. The choice at M2 would be damage reduction for party, damage reduction for self (shield wall), or whatever you flavor morale from class would be. That should be taken into account for how much to change it.

I would like to hear your reasoning that raze m3 (specially with all the changes)would specifically hurt destro warbands over order.

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adamthelc
Posts: 634

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#5 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:32 pm

I don't like DR morales just applying to morale damage as well, it seems like a lazy fix.

If coordinated morale bombs are such a problem that you have to take these steps, the effort to defend against them should take just as much coordination. 1 tank hitting a morale and trivializing a coordinated offensive effort is bad gameplay and boring because it favors defense too much.

Ideally you would give tanks a stacking morale DR, so if they were just as coordinated they could totally shut down an offensive morale bomb.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#6 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:01 pm

adamthelc wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:32 pm
Spoiler:
I don't like DR morales just applying to morale damage as well, it seems like a lazy fix.

If coordinated morale bombs are such a problem that you have to take these steps, the effort to defend against them should take just as much coordination. 1 tank hitting a morale and trivializing a coordinated offensive effort is bad gameplay and boring because it favors defense too much.
Ideally you would give tanks a stacking morale DR, so if they were just as coordinated they could totally shut down an offensive morale bomb.
So something like:
Immaculate Defense (M4) - Buffs all groupmates with X ft. Regular damage taken is reduced by 75%. Morale damage taken is reduced by 25% stacking with other immaculate defenses.

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Tesq
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Posts: 5346

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#7 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:48 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:20 pm
Tesq wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:46 pm
idk what it can be discuss here where raze can be aoe interrupt and m4 do nothing vs off morales...

unless someone wanna debate raze doing too many dmg even if is a channeling.

def m3 lowered into m2 would basically buff ch/bo in small scale.....and raze m3 would do more harm do des comps than to orders in oRvR.
I stated that M4 would be changed to work against offensive morales. Also you have ~3s to act after you get hit by morale dumps before the damage would hit. (See dps archtype morales)

All AoE damage morales moved to M3. Raze has the largest AoE size and can be interrupted. For this strength and weakness, it got to stay the same rather than have a delayed damage.

Defensive M3 would be taking a nerf to effectiveness. I listed 35% instead of 50% (but reduces morale damage), but would love feed back on that number. The choice at M2 would be damage reduction for party, damage reduction for self (shield wall), or whatever you flavor morale from class would be. That should be taken into account for how much to change it.

I would like to hear your reasoning that raze m3 (specially with all the changes)would specifically hurt destro warbands over order.
yes but dansari said talk about archtype only so i discussed about all, what i, felt like NOT be a problem.

even reducing m3 the fact that stack with challenge which is his forte still gona make it too good for m2, whatever % is unless really nerf into obblivion (who know maybe could work i duno), have it as m2 bug me as alredy ez and early panic button, atm for do that you need moral tactic if you nerf it to m2 the risk is that in small scale bo/ch can free 1 tactic and still have ez access to dmg reduction moral. General im for fix what is alredy here in a way that it get more balanced with out rewamp too much stuff because the sich it get out of controll way too easy and the risk outmatch the gain
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-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

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adamthelc
Posts: 634

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#8 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:48 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:01 pm
adamthelc wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:32 pm
Spoiler:
I don't like DR morales just applying to morale damage as well, it seems like a lazy fix.

If coordinated morale bombs are such a problem that you have to take these steps, the effort to defend against them should take just as much coordination. 1 tank hitting a morale and trivializing a coordinated offensive effort is bad gameplay and boring because it favors defense too much.
Ideally you would give tanks a stacking morale DR, so if they were just as coordinated they could totally shut down an offensive morale bomb.
So something like:
Immaculate Defense (M4) - Buffs all groupmates with X ft. Regular damage taken is reduced by 75%. Morale damage taken is reduced by 25% stacking with other immaculate defenses.
Exactly. I mean I don't know what the specific numbers should be, but in essence that is what I was talking about.

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Fallenkezef
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Posts: 1394

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#9 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Going outside the box a bit here, but why should tanks have damaging morales at all?

The tank archytype is to be a brick wall and protect his team. I've always thought raze should be an mdps morale while the tanks get the cc, damage absorb and damage reduction.

I say this as someone who abuses raze on his chosen.
Alea iacta est

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Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: Archtype Morales: Tanks

Post#10 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:03 pm

From a 6 man perspective most tanks are reliant on having a selfish defensive morale for slot one or 2, moving and nerfing distracting roar to slot 2 is a huge blow to a tanks ability to support his grp.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

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