Archtype Morales: Healers

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Tesq
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Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#21 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:45 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:03 am
Tesq wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:55 pm
Are you seriusly gona debate the importance of steal life a moral one?!, ready after 2 sec in combat? Is a hybrid moral ok as it is, since the pure heal moral heal for 1200 this both dmg and heal for a total.of 1250 ( 900 dmg and 450 heals)..../fine.... I dont see evidence for change this as tooltips is perfectly in line.
Heal on divine favor is 1800. Also I will debate the usefulness of pretty much every tool that every class in the game has. Everything should have at the least a moderate situational use or group composition use.
Ok i failed the value there, it could use some tooltip increase then. But divine favor is a pretty good moral yet i see no proof of why especially m1 should be changed.
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Zxul
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Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#22 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:39 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm
2. It's in the ruleset about what they consider for balance. Nothing outside of good players playing 6v6 or higher number content is on the table. While bringing up its uses in solo or pug situations can provide valuable insight and help support an argument, but that alone doesn't hold up.
In wb situation, non aoe morales don't matter. In 6man situation, those 20 or so total players (at most) which actually do 6man vs 6man, do not matter compared to vast majority of players, which play in wbs/pug. And mind linking me the ruleset where it is posted, since I don't see it in "Rules" section of the forums?
Ramasee wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm
3. No class stands in a vacuum. Tools each class have is designed to be used in conjunction with other classes in group settings. Steal Life sees abysmal amount of play in most environments. I do not expect it to ever be really used in warbands (which is fine), but it could be better and still be balanced for use in 6 man.\
Let me correct it, you see it seeing an abysmal amount of play in most environments. It has actually quite a bit of a use if used correctly, as posted above.
Ramasee wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm
4. I described a regular 6v6 fight. No good tank is going to let two mdps run off to go play with his healer. You don't have to kill a healer first to win an engagement. Morales are used for many reason, damage morales are usually used in conjunction with heal debuffs and CCs to burst a target that your whole team can hit at the moment.
Now lets looks at this, and see what it has to do with, and does it in any way matters, to "time 2 ticks of Steal Life as part of spike"?
Ramasee wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 pm
5. I stated previously in this thread that my initial steal life proposal was kind of just placed to start the discussion. I supported a different change in the very post that started our quote conversation. Team with 2 healers and 2 dps healers could do 3600 damage over 4.5s at the same time 2 healers on the opposing team can pop divine favor at 1800 a pop. Taking life steal on your own teams healers removes divine favor as an option. And hey if you can make that work, that means the proposal would be fair.
Going by your own point earlier in this thread- one of those 2 healers is stuggered by a zealot. Not to mention, I wouldn't mind the suggestion, however seeing how much of a use Steal Life has in current state (again, on my dok its the most used moral), I suspect some non healers will mind it.

It is a dps m1 morale, which can be used from 100 f away, can be timed as part of spike, can be used to help melt tanks in pug situations, can be used to finish off runners, ets. Is it the best morale out there? No. Is it useless? Only if you don't know how to use it correctly.
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Sanao
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Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#23 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:21 pm

Here are the rules to which Ramasee is referring; viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11105
The following special rules will apply within this forum:

1. Do not make arguments based on engagements smaller than 6v6.

We are not interested in class performance and balance on scales smaller than 6v6. Period. Topics made based around such scales will be locked immediately, and posters making arguments which are based around performance at very small scales will be infracted. This rule primarily exists to keep 1on1 duelling topics out of the forum and to make it very clear that regardless of what anyone's opinion on the validity of duelling in Warhammer may be, we are not interested in dealing with it.

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Ramasee
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Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#24 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:23 pm

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11105

Conduct within this Forum
Part 1 for size.
Part 5 for player ability.

Correct I rarely see it in content I watch or participate in. You are one of the few I have ever heard advocating for its use (beyond just" it is all I have for supplementary damage morale") Perhaps more 6 man oriented players could chime in on its use.

Zxul
Posts: 427

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#25 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:36 pm

Let me quote from the same place then:
The minimum number of players on each side that we will be considering within the balance forum is 6v6. This does not mean that 6v6 is our primary goal.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#26 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:39 pm

Going to close for now. Thanks for all of your contributions.
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