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[Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.

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Penril
Posts: 4445

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#241 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:53 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:Okay last Post cause Penril you realy dont Listen or you dont understand my english. That was Just an example that a riffleman engi can be Hard to kill and they are not squishy like a sorc. He can switch Towers he has enough cc to flee regenerate and so on.
And that example is either terrible or a lie. If he is kiting, then he does not have the Flame turret bonuses = the DPS Shaman eats him alive. If he is not kiting, then the DPS Chosen (x2) eat him alive. Sorry, but any half-decent 4-man group would murder a solo Engi quite easily.

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Noergl
Posts: 360

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#242 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:55 pm

May i add, just for clarification, that Arthur is and always has been a dedicated Grenadier.
So i dont think using snipe is in his repertoire. He is good, yes, hes really good. But Standing alone vs. 4 enemies and they couldnt bring him down?
wargrimnir wrote:Nothing against the Bitterstone Thunderers, but they're the best example of it. Drop down a gunline, half their warband pulls out kegs, and 9 times out of 10 they're getting rolled over not just by organized warbands, but by pug warbands as well. The only place they hold any significant advantage is at keeps.
You´re sooo mean :shock: But i would be lying if i would pull a lot of arguments against that statement out of my hard hat . BT isn´t optimised and probably never will be because of our own "race" restrictions. We try... and the difference is we´re persistent and stubborn :lol:

We put lots of kegs down, yes it makes our healers life a little easier, but we pay for that with less dps output. And as Grunbag has tried to explain very often, a tinkerer engie isnt a rdps anymore, he´s a close combat supporter.
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Tankbeardz
Posts: 562

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#243 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:03 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:Okay last Post cause Penril you realy dont Listen or you dont understand my english. That was Just an example that a riffleman engi can be Hard to kill and they are not squishy like a sorc. He can switch Towers he has enough cc to flee regenerate and so on. That was not a balance proposal based of a four on 1 Fight.... . An engi that place a riffle tower im a lord room Fight where The Enemys are 40 ft away makes something wrong. Just want to clarify that. If all ppl agree that order can create an area that gives 9 ppl more than 1k heal per second without a chance to debuff it than i feel alright with that fact cause my opinion are wrong than.
Unless there are several multi-boxed engis, this is impossible to coordinate. At best, you have several different kegs, healing random targets and maybe 1 or 2 ticks overlap.

Let's assume 3 engis lay down 3 kegs and that each heal is about 333 (so we can arrive at your 1k heals) and they are all laid at the EXACT same time and they happen to be healing the same EXACT targets:

•If you add up 1k and divide it by the 3 second tick...you arrive right back at an average of 333 per second.
*EVEN if they all lay kegs 1 second apart the average remains exactly the same.

•If you triple that number to 9 engineers...the results creep closer to that magical 1k heal number but it takes 9 engineers to achieve this and that is in no way game-breaking or sustainable.

*Those results aren't even close to possible due to factors like:
•Engineers can't lay down kegs at the same time unless they are multi-boxed
•Kegs target randomly...so the chances of all of the kegs healing your focused targets is nearly impossible
•Etc.
Last edited by Tankbeardz on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Natherul
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Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#244 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:15 pm

Trying to distance myself from this topic until the day where I eventually may have to speak to Aza and bring this topic up, but a moderators warning:

Anyone posting after this message with something like "close this thread" or along those lines will be temp thrown out of the balance board. There have been AMPLE warning in this thread alone already.

While I think that getting proof of the the issue that OP is describing may be nigh impossible atm lets focus on getting evidence for both sides from this point, ok?
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Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#245 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:53 pm

What about a test? 24 engis coordinated against 24 good destu wb. Szenario destru want to attack a room engis def? Want to See how easy or Hard it is. If we get enough ppl for that?
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Tankbeardz
Posts: 562

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#246 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:55 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:What about a test? 24 engis coordinated against 24 good destu wb. Szenario destru want to attack a room engis def? Want to See how easy or Hard it is. If we get enough ppl for that?
The problem with this is the keep lord and how easy it is to defend. In my experience here, it normally takes around a 2-1 population advantage to take a keep.

Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#247 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:56 pm

No not in keep. Just in a room
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Glorian
Posts: 4396

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#248 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:07 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:No not in keep. Just in a room
Actually that is a good idea.
I have a Dwarf Warband ready at this Thursday around 9pm Altdorf time.

I'm not sure it will prove something on the Keg Issue. Because Dwarf Warbands were hard to remove on BOs or in Rooms since AoR.
But if someone is recording the damage there can be done some number crunshing afterwards.

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Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#249 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:14 pm

Hm i hoped The Test will Show how 24 engis can defend without a heal without a Tank and without other dps. Edit we can Make IT As little Event. After that we all go together t3 empire rvr tavern place 24 kegs and drink the **** out of dat discussion
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Noergl
Posts: 360

Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

Post#250 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:23 pm

Daknallbomb wrote:Hm i hoped The Test will Show how 24 engis can defend without a heal without a Tank and without other dps.
Sorry, i think you misunderstood. We dont have 24 engies with tinkerer spec. We can try to get a mix of tinkerer and dps engies, and rp, ib and slayer. But again, as wargrimnir stated before, there would be no good result, because you would have to make a wb with class mixes and more different synergies than only dwarfs if you wanted to clarify anything. A dwarf only warband is to specialised i think and wouldn´t show any numbers representing a normal and mixed wb.
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