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[Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.

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Jaycub
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#11 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:25 pm

Penril wrote:Mirror of Madnes proposal won't happen. I suggest you guys focus on SoR, and maybe Ritual of Superiority (I believe it sucks, am I wrong?).
The absorb ritual doesn't really suck, it just kinda serves a similar purpose as the heal over time one in right tree. Of course people complain that they are under powered citing things like keg being much stronger than an actual healers class mechanic.

In terms of a groups access to AP regeneration nothing comes close to the rituals offered by rp/Z which makes them almost mandatory. You would have to offer something pretty desirable and equally strong on a ritual to compete.
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Penril
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#12 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:31 pm

Regarding MoM, we are discussing the possibility of changing it to:

"Curses your target for X seconds, so that whenever they receive a direct heal they take Y Corporeal damage".

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Jaycub
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#13 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm a bit afraid of a purely damage route, simply because mirror has to rival 6 second stagger and to a much lesser degree winds of insanity.

With a change like that there is a possibility that witchcraft tree becomes specifically a ST DPS zealot tree, which regardless of how overtuned you make it within reality it will always be a virtually unplayed spec. Bomb Z which is currently somewhat viable cannot afford to touch middle tree under any circumstances because of the importance of heal debuff and CA (zealot in general going DPS is severely starving for mastery points, playing around with builds in online builder is an exercise in frustration).

Maybe I am wrong, and heal zealots might spec for it to pop in harbringer cast it and pop out quickly for a nice set of damage (unless turning off harbringer reduces the already casted ability). And in a way you trade a bit of healing power via scaling and 6 sec stagger for some more group damage. But I really think some kind of utility has to be tacked onto it for heal zealots to consider giving up 6 sec stagger.

Going back to ST DPS zealot, which in reality like "DPS" DoK or AM is hybrid build. What makes DoK and AM (peak buff) good is they do almost as much damage as a pure DPS class but bring buffs, utility, and off healing. And if anyone was wondering why DPS Sham isn't as good as DPS AM it's really just because SM stacking spirit debuff making DPS AM arguably harder than SW and probably 80% of what BW does in sustained damage.

Zealot isn't dealing anywhere near as much damage as even SH, their healing in DPS spec is horrendous unless you drop divine fury then they do less damage than most tanks. The utility is there, with rituals, wounds buff, bubble, cleanse etc... but some of the strongest utility on Z is mostly tied to tactics some of which require healing which obviously poses a huge problem.

But again, even if you somehow managed to capture what peak DPS AM had you won't find but a few groups running it. And that's really why I think witchcraft should cater to both playstyles, healers need a reason to spec into it. And maybe like suggested before a ritual overhaul would help because you can't run the current meta spec on Z and grab withcraft's ritual.

This might also just be me assuming because mirror is changed, it won't receive any love thereafter. And I'd rather wait for the proper time to address it if it's not feasible atm.
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wwright72
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#14 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:52 pm

Penril wrote:Regarding MoM, we are discussing the possibility of changing it to:

"Curses your target for X seconds, so that whenever they receive a direct heal they take Y Corporeal damage".
What about "Curses your target for X seconds, so that whenever they cast a AP costing ability they take Y Corporeal damage"?
Would make it universally useful and you can scale the dmg around that. Also I agree absorb ritual is bad, any ideas on what could compete with ap ritual?

As far as SoR goes I think adding a snare component would be the very nice, as much as I love having people just walk away from me :( Theres also the option of adding a corp res debuff to SoR considering if you speced ST you don't take the debuff tactic.
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kirraha
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#15 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:27 pm

Mirror is **** imo
Thikkboi - Bork
Kaleth - Bg
Tentickles - Mara
Missrabbit - Magus (Filthy exploiter)
Panzerelite - Chosen
Ziizii - Zealot
Snape - Dok
Knocka - Choppa
Vrikotixx - Shaman

>.>

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wwright72
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#16 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:32 pm

I'm loving the SoR change, its feels alot better to play with.
I don't wanna sound like as ass because I appreciate you trying to fix the middle tree but Mirror of Madness in its current form is not worth taking over winds or stagger(post 9/9 patch). The damage is quite low compared to its previous iteration making the 2sec cast-time not really worth the damage. Its better to dot 2 more people for more SW procs then to hard cast mirror. I don't really see this ability being used anymore after testing it.
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Idrinth's WAR Tools / RR80 and I still haven't finished my genesis set, Kill me...

Penril
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#17 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:33 pm

- Storm of Ravens now carries a snare component
- Mirror of Madness now causes damage to the recipient on DIRECT HEAL RECEIVED instead of heal cast, damage occurs once per second max.
- Mirror of Madness can be cast on the move

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Jaycub
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#18 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:44 pm

Torquemadra wrote:My Flash of Chaos heals for 375, my MoM hits me for 425 (after mitigation), then if you factor in heal debuffs as well thats a significant system to overcome incoming heals on a target

Also set it to move cast.
Perfect, that makes it a worthy ability for sure now. I'm a bit engrossed in leveling up my BG, but I'll try to play some of my zealot with MoM.

I guess this is a feedback thread now? Going to post my thoughts below.
Spoiler:
So I've been thinking and kinda discussing it with players in my guild about how DPS zealot would possibly fit into a group, these changes as of now are a huge leap forward in getting to that point but still lacking. Right now you are speccing full witchcraft, then either taking armor/corp debuff and CA in right tree, or getting AP ritual, possibly crit tactic and boon in left tree. There is no access to heal debuff, but if you are in a group with mara/sh that's not really of any concern.

However moving the healdebuff lower in the tree, to allow speccing for that would increase your options. Making it the 1st tactic in the tree would allow you to spec this at R40, and have the ability to choose any ritual you want. Making it the second tactic would require the Z to be RR70 (taking into consideration my next statement). The second thing and probably the most important would be to make the armor/corp debuff a bit easier to apply. 40ft is often really dangerous, virtually unthinkable in large scale RvR outside of being in a bomb warband. If the tactic where to change spittle from the 40ft large cone AoE to a 65ft small cone AoE like sorc's ice spikes that would make it considerably more easier to apply, but still in danger of things like WL pull/m1, SW/BW RKD etc...

If you could have full witchcraft tree, healdebuff, and 65ft armor/corp debuff (that still stacks with everything). I think at least in theory Zealot would finally find a spot in groups outside of bomb warband, these changes would actually make bomb Z slightly better as well as now you can get winds as well. ST DPS Z could replace SH in a 3-2-1 (if granted access to HD), or be ran in a 3rdps kite group.
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Athergic
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#19 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:08 pm

The mirror of madness change is nice.
I really wish we got a slow on something else than storm of ravens though, it just feels clunky and ineffective. I can't recall a bright wizard using their similiar abillity to prevent me from getting to them on a mdps. A slows a slow though!
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wwright72
Legacy RR80
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Re: [Zealot] Path of Witchcraft Abilities

Post#20 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:22 pm

Thank you for cast while moving change Mirror feels alot smoother to use.
Jaycub wrote:
If you could have full witchcraft tree, healdebuff, and 65ft armor/corp debuff (that still stacks with everything). I think at least in theory Zealot would finally find a spot in groups outside of bomb warband, these changes would actually make bomb Z slightly better as well as now you can get winds as well. ST DPS Z could replace SH in a 3-2-1 (if granted access to HD), or be ran in a 3rdps kite group.[/spoiler]
I agree this would be ideal. This would also give the spec access to a useful m4.
Last edited by wwright72 on Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Idrinth's WAR Tools / RR80 and I still haven't finished my genesis set, Kill me...

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