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Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

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Coma
Posts: 167

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#31 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:04 pm

Jbz wrote:Giving tanks or mdps disrupt strikethrough debuff sounds interesting and effective to me.
the question is: why do caster DPS need tank/mdps to give them striketrough while MDPS only need do run around the target to completely avoid parry and phisical RDPS have Pirce defense on their own? also note that SW have a 10% redction being defended from racial tattic while ENG have a 5% dodge/block reduction on skill ON TOP of pierce defense that make it much easier to land compared to the magus version and tota up for 20% reduction in block/dodge...


this is IMHO the point... there are a considerable number of way to deal with high parry/block/dodge... but an extremely limite (and not really efficent) way to deal with high dirupt... and this high dirupt is what is cousing ST magical dps to suffer a lot while also reducing the efficency of AoE magical dps... altrough to a lesser degree than ST what more those way to deal with parry/block/dodge are avaible to the classes that actualy have to deal with it... while the best way to deal with disrupt is already on non magical classes... and you want to futher increase this dependance?

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Bozzax
Posts: 2037

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#32 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Never mind
Spoiler:
If it is of type tactic then it stacks w other tacs and abilities
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Coma
Posts: 167

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#33 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:38 pm

Bozzax wrote:
Coma wrote:
Bozzax wrote:AOE
Staggering Impact (kniggit) 30” -10%

ST
Critical Supression (cho) 5” -10%
Magus / Engie both have a 100” -5%
kotbs one is a 13 point dps ability, still pretty good (totally forgot about this one..) but note that it actualy wark against ALL defense... it means that yes... it reduce 10% dirupt... but also reduces 10% block, dodge and parry... and this stack with pierce defense on top of parry being avoidable with positioning... ^^'

Chosen critical suppression is the same as Kotbs in the fact that it is applied to ALL defenses... but being a tattic it shouldn't stack with pierce defense... so you get 15% reduced chance to parry/block/dodge and 10% chance to disrupt... still it is probably the best asset a destro Magical RDPS can work on.... and it by itself is pretty sad... also only ST on a 10sec cd/duration

engi don't have disrupt reduction ^^ flare reduces block and dodge ^^' (and they also got pierce defense for a total of 20% potential dodge and block reduction ^^' )

magus have a 5% dirupt reduction... on a disruptable skill with 20 sec cd ^^' yes it help... but can't really be the only thing you can depend on to salvage the high dirupt chance that is currentyl going on ^^
If it is of type tactic then it stacks w other tacs and abilities
thought tattics didn't stack with each other just like skill don't stack with each other... my bad ^^' but this also mean that you can get 25% dodge/bclok/parry reduction while only 10 disrupt reductin by having a chosen and a SH hitting the same target... you can see how much Magical dps have to deal with defense than MDPS/phisical RDPS... that is on top of healer having much more disrupt that any other class have of other defense ^^'

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Bozzax
Posts: 2037

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#34 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:41 pm

Spoiler:
My bad actually I don’t think it stacks (appends effect on supression I think and has no own id or icon)

Sry :p
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2037

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#35 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:51 pm

Spoiler:
Coma wrote: MDPS only need do run around the target to completely avoid ..
When debating melee avoidance 270 vs ranged avoidance 360 being unfair do consider...

Melee targets can avoid melee attacks much more easy by positioning / pre kite / snare / root / moving a tad / kd / pounce / kb

Plus if you face the melee they are smoked

Ranged only has los (sometimes) or flee/charge out of range (100 feet)
A tad off topic
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Coma
Posts: 167

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#36 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:11 pm

Bozzax wrote:
Coma wrote: MDPS only need do run around the target to completely avoid ..
When debating melee avoidance 270 vs ranged avoidance 360 do consider

Melee targets can avoid melee attacks much more easy by positioning / pre kite / snare / root / moving a tad / kd / pounce / kb /etc

Ranged only has los (sometimes) or flee/charge out of range (100 feet)
O_o I struggle to get what you mean by melee having an easier time avoiding melee... with both classes having the same movement speed I see it quite hard to get outside of melee range without snare/root (that are avaible to both side) once they have engaged in melee (closing the gap is a different matter and this is obviously an advantage for RDPS) what's more with root/kd now making impossible to turn avoiding parry/block for mdps have become easier than before ^^' unless you'r talking about melee completely avoiding going into melee... but welll what are they doing as MELEE dps if they avoind going into melee? the only one I can see being able to easily avoid MDPS while still being able to hit Rdps/healers is WL thank to pounce/fetch... mara would be glad to do the same but it is also vulnerable to dirupt for TE so it can only reliable aim for Rdps ^^'

but this is anyway of little influence to the concept as a whole... the fact remain that melee defense can be fully avoided while ranged defense can't... ON TOP of the avaibility and effeciency of parry/block/dodge reduction compared to disrupt reduction ON TOP of higher dirupt avaiblity (yes tank can get pretty high level of parry... but tank can also get similar level of disrupt... some can even get more disrupt than parry ^^' and melee when stacking parry hardly get close to healer's dirupt ^^')

Penril
Posts: 4445

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#37 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:40 pm

We are not talking about MDPS issues. Stay on topic.

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Delenot
Posts: 104

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#38 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:10 pm

Spoiler:
With everything I have read on this thus far, has reverting the Disrupt/DoT changes that initially caused this concern been considered? I know nothing of coding/programming, but (and I could well be wrong) wouldn't reverting something that caused this issue be considerably easier to do than finding new changes/balances for everything it caused?
Maybe, whatever issue the Disrupt/DoT changes had been intended to address could be addressed in some other fashion that wouldn't be so invasive?
We are not discussing that. Stick to OP's proposal.

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Reesh
Posts: 642

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#39 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm

I agree with Aurandilaz idea as well, the 10% disrupt strike through to staff users won't shake the balance around, and it would compensate a tiny bit the situation of magic users.
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Hastykrasty
Posts: 113

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#40 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:35 pm

Just pointing this out:
Giving 10% disrupt strikethrough to staff wielding people improves also AoE, which is not the goal, since we are talking about ST.
Personally, I'm more keen to something people have to spec for, in the appropiate tree, that prevents AoE use and abuse, then we can talk about the measure of the %strikethrough of it.
Of course this buff should be extended to other casters in general, with its precautions.
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