Slayer/Choppa Detaunts

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coldnegative
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Slayer/Choppa Detaunts

Post#1 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:35 am

Hello! Once again I want to propose changes in the balance for Slayer and Choppa mDPS classes.

Will be brief.
1) Detaunts should have less cooldown or longer effect (preferably both) because "Disctracting Roar" and "Outta My Face!" are not on par with detaunts of other DPS classes. 5 sec of active effect and 30 sec CD make those core abilities basically the worst detaunts in the game.
2) Slayer and Choppa do not have debuffing or ignoring armor abilities like others DPS but still they have positional attacks requiring be behind your enemy to hit. It absolutely unlogical. Giving "Spine Crusher" and "Go For Da Soft Spot" an ignoring armor properties (50% I would say) will not ruin balance since those aren't Exhaust Blows with possible 75% bonus damage but will make those abilities usefull and make more sense in a positioning game since players will need to choose counting on parry procs or trying to achieve more damage.
3) M2 "Deadly Determination" and "Tantrum" MUST BE active at least longer than 30 sec. With current changes it's often not even possible to land 8 hits during one fight (especially in premade scenarios) because of players need time to choose target more wisely or to backup etc. But I will tell that again it must be possible to land 8 hits with M2 proc. I understand that activating M2 long before any fight is kinda cheat but 2 min of active buff would make more sense.


No discussions on #2 and #3. - Dan

Sorry for my English. Thanks in advance!

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dansari
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Re: Slayer/Choppa

Post#2 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:08 pm

Moving to discussions. Topic closed on May 4. Note that we will not be discussing proposal #3 regarding the m2 morale, as this is not being changed. Anyone who uses this thread as a platform to whine about the m2 change will face swifter warnings than I would normally deliver.

It is also highly unlikely that anything will come of proposal #2 because there are plenty of other armor debuffs in the game. I could see an argument to have it tied to the 2h trees to bolster their viability, but have made an executive decision to leave them out of this discussion as well. That gets into mirroring too much and it warrants its own proposal for each class separately if you want to discuss it.

Thus, I moved this to discuss the detaunts for Slayer/Choppa. For reference:

WL/Mara: 5s uptime, 10s cooldown, 30ft aoe
WH/WE: 15s uptime, 30s cooldown, 30ft aoe

Both of these are 50% uptime, whereas the Slayer/Choppa detaunt is 16.67% uptime. Is this good for the class/game? Why or why not? What would you change or why wouldn't you change it? Keep in mind these two classes have a rage mechanic that allows them to deal substantial damage (single target and aoe) compared to the other mdps, so does that matter to the discussion? etc.

tl;dr #2 and #3 no no unless you want ban ban. #1 OK.
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Reesh
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#3 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:29 pm

I'd suggest 10s uptime, 20s cooldown, 30ft aoe.

Detaunts on these classes are not used as often as on other mdps, because being grouped avoids the need to use detaunt. Slayer less then Choppa, as ID basically nullifies the ability to detaunt something, as it will break it.
There are rare occasions like your guard or you getting punted away makes you want to pop a detaunt, but that happen occasionally.

There is also second problem with it - high ap cost. Lowering it from 50 to 30/40 might be a good idea. Yes, I know the WL/Mara ones have same ap cost.
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Fallenkezef
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#4 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:54 pm

In general, the Slayer and Chopper are the aoe MDPS so they tend to break detaunts. Due to this I'm not sure extended duration matters but I'd favour a reduction in cooldown.
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Panzerkasper
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#5 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:43 pm

The biggest problem no one seems to see is, that CH/SL need actually 2 gcds to effectifly detaunt. First of all you always need to get rid of rage and then detaunt.

I'd go for: 7 sec duration, 20sec cooldown, 30 feet aoe and make it drop rage.
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dansari
Posts: 2479

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#6 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:50 pm

Panzerkasper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:43 pm
The biggest problem no one seems to see is, that CH/SL need actually 2 gcds to effectifly detaunt. First of all you always need to get rid of rage and then detaunt.

I'd go for: 7 sec duration, 20sec cooldown, 30 feet aoe and make it drop rage.
Are there instances where you would want to keep rage (if you're in yellow for example) but also want to detaunt? I suck at SL so not sure if this is common when trying to focus down a single target while also wanting to drop focus on yourself, or maybe this isn't a thing b/c the cooldown is 30s and you want to save detaunt for when you're actually in trouble? Either way, not sure if combining into one makes sense, just fostering discussion.
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Darosh
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#7 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:06 pm

dansari wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:50 pm
Panzerkasper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:43 pm
The biggest problem no one seems to see is, that CH/SL need actually 2 gcds to effectifly detaunt. First of all you always need to get rid of rage and then detaunt.

I'd go for: 7 sec duration, 20sec cooldown, 30 feet aoe and make it drop rage.
Are there instances where you would want to keep rage (if you're in yellow for example) but also want to detaunt? I suck at SL so not sure if this is common when trying to focus down a single target while also wanting to drop focus on yourself, or maybe this isn't a thing b/c the cooldown is 30s and you want to save detaunt for when you're actually in trouble? Either way, not sure if combining into one makes sense, just fostering discussion.
Rule of thumb: You save your detaunt for guardtrip (as with all detaunts... besides preemptive healer ones). If you see a KD/punt animation, or have the slightest feeling of any of that happening you drop your rage and detaunt. There is virtually no other situation that could prompt you to fire the detaunt in proper play.

No guardbot = pugging = detaunt is useless in 9/10 cases, outside of dedicated soloroam.

If you blow detaunt you have to drop rage, the situation will demand it. Mind you, it's impossible to recover with rez-debuffed Choppas/Slayers, if opposition knows what it does. Risk isn't worth it, just wait for the next burst cycle (5s to yellow, 15s to red - 5r/s).

Note: transitioning into red while KD'd/disarmed is terrible... the Situation above will come with CC, preventing you from dropping rage. Dropping rage is a superior detaunt, if you will.



E: Autocorrect..., words, heat, meh. Meh.
Last edited by Darosh on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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GodlessCrom
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:16 pm

Having detaunt drop rage would be a pretty decent buff to Power Through/whatever stupid orcy name Choppa gets for the mirror. Since only way to drop rage currently is to use Flee, which of course then means you need to burn an AP pot or get some AP feed.

Dunno if that matters, since those are both underperforming tactics as far as I know, but it being able to detaunt to drop rage would definitely buff them.
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dansari
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#9 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:23 pm

GodlessCrom wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:16 pm
Having detaunt drop rage would be a pretty decent buff to Power Through/whatever stupid orcy name Choppa gets for the mirror. Since only way to drop rage currently is to use Flee, which of course then means you need to burn an AP pot or get some AP feed.

Dunno if that matters, since those are both underperforming tactics as far as I know, but it being able to detaunt to drop rage would definitely buff them.
Good point. Again, not sure if possible/plausible, but good to note stuff like this that has adverse affects.
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Darosh
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Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#10 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:29 pm

GodlessCrom wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:16 pm
Having detaunt drop rage would be a pretty decent [...]
That's in my opinon the most reasonable way of dealing with it. Wraps all crucial things into one reliable skill. Drawbacks are still there, CD + AP cost + duration (2-3 short of covering guardstrips entirely).

Alternatively make it so, that during the detaunt no rage is beging generated, if dropping it is too fancy. That'd turn detaunt into a 30s CD, 5s duration utility skill for 2h specs, while covering sustain needs/keeping drawbacks (and adding a new one; trading oh-**** button for pewpew).
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