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Slayer/Choppa Detaunts

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#41 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:57 pm

coldnegative wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:41 pm Well. It sounds kinda weird to drop rage by using detaunt ability. I've never thought in that way but I'd like to try this.
But also I have to say detaunt with such option must not be lasting longer than 5 sec.
Still think CH's/SL's detaunt should have lesser cd.
In sum: 5sec active time, 20 sec CD and drop rage. Why not test this?
I wholeheartedly approve this once again.
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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#42 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:50 pm

adamthelc wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:55 am I think its more about functionality than wanting something dumbed down. I am not a big fan of the removing rage idea, I think thats the exact opposite direction they should take.

Detaunt isnt as good on a slayer as it is on any other mdps, including a Choppa, but I dont have a huge problem with that.

I do think they should be given something that gives them more survivability without sacrificing a huge chunk of output, besides their M1. My idea is more suited to a change in Even the Odds though. Since the topic here is detuant I wont really go into it.

But dont like the idea of dropping rage with detuant. I would rather have the option to drop rage and have to spend the GCD.
I'd opt for a drop to yellow and a stop to rage generation, as hinted at earlier in the thread. Turns it into utility for 2h with a tradeoff...But that could be immensely broken, too. So meh, Middlefingers compromise is the most reasonable, tho I wouldn't care much about the CD, tbh.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#43 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:18 pm

There are multiple reasons for not doing this
1. Kind of makes detaunt kite off dots with longer and stronger meh
2. Makes wot rules go crazy, finisher (yellow), finisher (yellow), finisher (yellow), detaunt when (red), ability (green), finisher (green), finisher (yellow), finisher () ...

E: updated and greens added same result
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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coldnegative
Posts: 31

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#44 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Bozzax wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:18 pm 2. Makes wot rules go crazy
that's why the rage must be drop to zero/green.
I do not support the idea of yellow rage drop by detaunting.

tomato
Posts: 403

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:36 pm

Rage drop with detaunting is a bad idea.

Simplifies rage management too much and rewards lazy play.

Small cooldown reduction would be fine if you really want to change something.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#46 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:46 pm

Bozzax wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:18 pm There are multiple reasons for not doing this
1. Kind of makes detaunt kite off dots with longer and stronger meh
2. Makes wot rules go crazy, finisher (yellow), finisher (yellow), finisher (yellow), detaunt when (red), ability (green), finisher (green), finisher (yellow), finisher () ...

E: updated and greens added same result

With high cd ? Ureliable at best plus if rage go to 0 it' s fine
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#47 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:30 pm

Unlike yourselves I've used a similar thing on live (Improved flee + Efficiency) to get x2 yellow finisher spam.

Green > Yellow finisher spam > @Red KD > Flee (with improved flee to get AP regen) + AP > Efficiency > and slow yellow rage decay where you could spam finishers to green and back to yellow.

Had 60s CD and way more tricky to pull off plus took a serious amount of renown (Still worth it).

Will be op on 30s CD as a core ability.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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coldnegative
Posts: 31

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#48 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:12 am

Bozzax wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:30 pm on live (Improved flee + Efficiency) to get x2 yellow finisher spam.
same here.
Bozzax wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:30 pm Will be op on 30s CD as a core ability.
I'll tell that again. It's a reason to drop rage to zero like if you used any exhaustive blow but it must not be affected by tactics which have 50% to save you 25% of current rage.

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#49 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:16 pm

Just quoting myself for clarifications sake, I am not a lunatic:
Spoiler:
Darosh wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:50 pm I'd opt for a drop to yellow and a stop to rage generation, as hinted at earlier in the thread. Turns it into utility for 2h with a tradeoff...But that could be immensely broken, too.
Coldnegative has a very, very good point:
Interactions between the new detaunt - as per the ideas being discussed - and tactics/skills (e.g.: ST/WW + lower base CD, one reason I am personally against sub 20-25s CDs ~
you could profit, especially on a Slayer [ID/SL], from CD-relevant interactions, beyond the point of reasonablility; i.e.: as a rule of thumb take off 5s from whatever is being suggested as CD and think about uptime).

Making life easier on a mechanically shallow class can backfire, even if the class comes with an extreme dependence on proper setup (AND practised!) groups that is only rivalled by it's rdps 'mirror' (BW/Sorc).

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Slayer/Choppa Detaunts [Close Date May 4]

Post#50 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:22 pm

I personally don’t feel the detaunt needs to be changed. It’s a non-issue in organised environments (be they 6man and WB), and its low uptime goes hand-in-hand with the philosophy behind the class; that it is the most potent melee DPS in the game when allowed to train, (potentially) and if assisted by competent heals and tanks.

Having such a short detaunt duration almost mandates playing in a group, which (you guessed it!) is no bad thing, in my view.
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