[AM] M1 Isha's Ward

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Luuca
Posts: 1217

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#51 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:10 am

OK dabbart, I will reply to your initial post without insulting you.
Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Howdy my AM is Dabbartam 40/50.

The Issue: After playing my AM up to RR50(again, long story), this Morale is consistently the most powerful M1 imo,

Opinion, not fact.
Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
the 60s timer means you can keep it up nearly 100% incase someone decides to target you.
And if they do not target you, it is a wasted morale and therefore does not affect gameplay or balance.

Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
There is extremely limited skill/timing required in the use of this Morale.
If you waste your M1 willy nilly by firing it without cause, yes you are correct. Most players would not because they know they may need M2. As such, your argument is against bad play. Bad play is not considered on the balance forums AFAIK.

Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
just pop it and forget it, giving you 3600 absorp 55seconds after you drop it, and 5s before you can drop it again.
Again, a super rare occurrence and bad play at it's root. Not considered.
Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Imo, this Morale is overperforming compared to any other M1 or bubble morale.
On the balance forums we are not to consider other classes abilities and morales.
Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
lets you play far more aggressively than you could otherwise.
As if a cloth wearing healer can play uber aggressive and live? I don;t think it helps all that much.
Dabbart wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Solution: Reduce the duration to 20s. This enables the morale to still be used preemptively, it still allows you to "see" the DPS inc and prepare, it's still a very large Bubble(3600 is at least half of most players HP pool), and reducing the timer to 20s puts it more in line with(I believe) every other Morale ability in the game(20s or under duration).
There is no need to reduce the duration because the strawman arguments for reducing it are either false or out of order with balance forums submittals.
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Dabbart
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Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#52 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 am

1, I said it was my opinion. That’s what IMO stands for. In my opinion.

2, How do you know? I gave multiple examples in this thread of reasons it wouldn’t be “wasted” while utilizing the full 60s timer. Also, you’ve yet to comment on players using Buffhead, and choosing not to engage the AM that has a Bubble up. Choice of Targets, intelligent play would be to choose the one without a 3600 bubble up.

3, You don’t speak for most players. Also, you make the assumption it is “wasted”. As already discussed, we disagree there. Arguing to increase the skill level of an ability is specifically listed in the balance discussion rules.

4, As I said, you arbitrarily decide what “matters” to fit your argument.

5, Yes, when discussing M1s you can discuss how they stack compared to others. You can tell, if you read the first page of this damn thread.

6, How many times have you seen me do just that? Yea I die on AM, but that’s mostly cause Zaxx breaks my LoS and I have to push forward to heal... And stop putting words in my mouth. I said “far more aggressive than otherwise”. Which is true. Not uberly aggressive. Yes there is a difference, that’s why you chose your version. Also, don’t give me **** for posting my opinion and then drop yours as if it’s more relevant. “I don’t think it helps too much” isn’t fact, nor is it in my case when I state something imo.

7, It’s not for you to determine what is it isn’t out of order. Sorry. If you think my arguments are false, then argue against them. Prove them wrong. Edit: I know that’s what you are trying to do.

8, So, still no actual reason it needs to stay 60s huh? Any reason it being changed to 20s would “break” anything at all? Just admit you like it being 60s and don’t want to lose your toy.

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Luuca
Posts: 1217

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#53 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:28 am

Dabbart wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 am
8, So, still no actual reason it needs to stay 60s huh? Any reason it being changed to 20s would “break” anything at all? Just admit you like it being 60s and don’t want to lose your toy.
It should stay at 60 seconds for the following reasons:

1. Class wears weakest armor in game
2. Class has no other "escape" tactics or abilities like similar classes
3. 60 second duration, while it can be a set and forget usage model, and that may seem overpowered, a 20 second duration will diminish the value of the morale so much, it becomes second tier to 1800 heal M1. 30 seconds would be better.


Your point of view on this morale is tainted, I feel, by your renown rank. At lower RR, when AMs have less points and gear, this M! is the only survivability tool at their disposal. AMs do not have the Run Away tactic nor auto detaunt. It would severely diminish the survivability of the weakest healer and weakest dps of all the healers in-game.
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AxelF
Posts: 132

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#54 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:16 am

Luuca wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:28 am
Dabbart wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 am
8, So, still no actual reason it needs to stay 60s huh? Any reason it being changed to 20s would “break” anything at all? Just admit you like it being 60s and don’t want to lose your toy.
It should stay at 60 seconds for the following reasons:

1. Class wears weakest armor in game
2. Class has no other "escape" tactics or abilities like similar classes
3. 60 second duration, while it can be a set and forget usage model, and that may seem overpowered, a 20 second duration will diminish the value of the morale so much, it becomes second tier to 1800 heal M1. 30 seconds would be better.


Your point of view on this morale is tainted, I feel, by your renown rank. At lower RR, when AMs have less points and gear, this M! is the only survivability tool at their disposal. AMs do not have the Run Away tactic nor auto detaunt. It would severely diminish the survivability of the weakest healer and weakest dps of all the healers in-game.
1/2. As do RP/Zealot who also have no 'escape' tactics or abilities and no self defence options anywhere near as powerful as Isha's Ward.
3. 60 second duration is very long for an M1 - why would 30 seconds be more balanced than 20 seconds for such a powerful M1?

AxelF
Posts: 132

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#55 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:18 am

AxelF wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:16 am
Luuca wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:28 am
Dabbart wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 am
8, So, still no actual reason it needs to stay 60s huh? Any reason it being changed to 20s would “break” anything at all? Just admit you like it being 60s and don’t want to lose your toy.
It should stay at 60 seconds for the following reasons:

1. Class wears weakest armor in game
2. Class has no other "escape" tactics or abilities like similar classes
3. 60 second duration, while it can be a set and forget usage model, and that may seem overpowered, a 20 second duration will diminish the value of the morale so much, it becomes second tier to 1800 heal M1. 30 seconds would be better.


Your point of view on this morale is tainted, I feel, by your renown rank. At lower RR, when AMs have less points and gear, this M! is the only survivability tool at their disposal. AMs do not have the Run Away tactic nor auto detaunt. It would severely diminish the survivability of the weakest healer and weakest dps of all the healers in-game.
1/2. As do RP/Zealot who also have no 'escape' tactics or abilities and no self defence options anywhere near as powerful as Isha's Ward. Anyway, AM has AoE slow puddle which can be a very effective escape option if used correctly.
3. 60 second duration is very long for an M1 - why would 30 seconds be more balanced than 20 seconds for such a powerful M1?

Knowthyself
Posts: 53

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#56 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:53 am

As an addition, I don't think it is fair when other classes have to use their deffensive morales under preassure (you cannot use it when you are knocked down, staggered etc.), which is the case when you are being focused, one class has the advange of walking around with it as already granted in advance.
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Luuca
Posts: 1217

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#57 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:01 am

AxelF wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:16 am
1/2. As do RP/Zealot who also have no 'escape' tactics or abilities and no self defence options anywhere near as powerful as Isha's Ward.
3. 60 second duration is very long for an M1 - why would 30 seconds be more balanced than 20 seconds for such a powerful M1?
20 seconds versus 30 seconds.. hmm, I dunno.. maybe since we are throwing out bullshit durations, why is mine any less valid?
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anarchypark
Posts: 1328

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#58 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:24 am

I do remember slayer(?) morale which was 60s got nurfed. you could join SC with morale activated.

except that exploit, I still believe pre-use are waste as squishy healer.
pre-casted shield are reduced by fluff DoT dmg.
wasted on any minor threats. what AM gets are time for another actions instead of self heal.

question is, is it really that big advantage?
slayer was dps, burst was big advantage.
squishest healer with shield advantage... idk.

but I agree on blocking SC join with M1 activated. ( is it still possible? )
other than that, orvr chain use are skill management. AM 'need' 60s or not is irrelevant.
skill is there. skill is OP or not is point.

I don't think it's OP. I think it's designed for both dps and heal build.
but if SC join only be stopped by 20sec CD, we have no choice but accept it.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#59 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:34 am

anarchypark wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:24 am

question is, is it really that big advantage?
slayer was dps, burst was big advantage.
squishest healer with shield advantage... idk.


Fair points there.
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Knowthyself
Posts: 53

Re: [AM] M1 Isha's Ward [Close Date: 6th May]

Post#60 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:22 pm

If it is not a big advantage then what's wrong with changing its duration to 20 secs.? It would still be a decent morale that you can pop in every minute. I think you are missing the fact that it is a M1. If you compare it to any other M1 in game you would see that it is basicly overperforming. What is fair about changing its cooldown to 20 seconds is that it will force the player to use it exactly when it is extremely needed just as all the other morale abilities are intended to. I find no logic in your argument about pre-usage being a waste. How ? You can pop another one exactly right after it fades? But it gives you a granted in advance defence tool for any unexpected attack which is a big advantage. Moreover, I don't agree with the idea that AM is the squishiest healer. It depends on who is the player and how many armor talis are used...
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