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Rampage - Need rework

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bormo
Posts: 17

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#81 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:35 am

if rampage requires rework
Choppa needs a rampage
and
Justice for all
___________
Mrober & Hrennon & Dua & Zummuz & Bextor

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#82 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 am

Yes rampage nullyfing too many things is the same reason why kobs DT was nerfed.

For exemple a 20% st crit debuff is worth lets say 45+ renown

Now rampage nullify block parry till 9 targets. Lets say we took in account only 4 tank and 4 dps in this case.

30 renown point per tank lets say and 20 for melee.

-120 for a tanks
-80 for melee

Rampage power level = 200 renown points when it cames to aoe synergy.

If it's st it much much less (as above 30/40)

A solution could also separate on rampage st and aoe dmg severly lowerr the block / parry ignore when using aoe skills. If its left as an unicum it would be better balance for the larger scale rather than small one imo.
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Neil
Posts: 80

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#83 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:39 am

another crusade against a class. nerf them all untill everybody quits! :roll:
SL NEILOR RR7X | BO NEILER RR7X

mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#84 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:07 am

Spoiler:
Tesq wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 am Yes rampage nullyfing too many things is the same reason why kobs DT was nerfed.

For exemple a 20% st crit debuff is worth lets say 45+ renown

Now rampage nullify block parry till 9 targets. Lets say we took in account only 4 tank and 4 dps in this case.

30 renown point per tank lets say and 20 for melee.

-120 for a tanks
-80 for melee

Rampage power level = 200 renown points when it cames to aoe synergy.

If it's st it much much less (as above 30/40)

A solution could also separate on rampage st and aoe dmg severly lowerr the block / parry ignore when using aoe skills. If its left as an unicum it would be better balance for the larger scale rather than small one imo.
so what about bw/sorc class mechanic then? it gives you around 45*9 (anti crit ans still 11% missing) and the crit dmg (about 2 tacitic slots?)...in addition wouldnt a rampage nerf heavly hit slayers aoe abilies to the point, that it is not worth taking a slayer in wb? and isnt rampage more or less counter by gift of monstrosity? which should be okay cause gom is counter by bw dmg type? ror was still concepted as a classical rock sicssor paper game?

Dammy095
Posts: 371

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#85 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:12 am

again people missing armor ignore with block/parry ignore

Dajciekrwi
Posts: 700

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#86 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:30 am

peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:37 pm
wachlarz wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:30 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:08 pm

Legit no idea what you're saying.
I will run if i see any Slayer ty for advicce. Its legit
Run, wait out the Rampage, build morales, wait for people to come - you do have choices.

You aren't forced with a gun to your head to facetank a rampage slayer.
So now You know why i always run before so called "fair fight" :D. You want a fair fight and then advice me to run or wait for more people!
Join Fat Squigs bro, we need one more cold blooded psychos like me, in our Fat Family :))
Wachlarz bro, y see, always run to kill a Slayer , follow me:)))

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#87 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:21 pm

mubbl wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:07 am
Spoiler:
Tesq wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 am Yes rampage nullyfing too many things is the same reason why kobs DT was nerfed.

For exemple a 20% st crit debuff is worth lets say 45+ renown

Now rampage nullify block parry till 9 targets. Lets say we took in account only 4 tank and 4 dps in this case.

30 renown point per tank lets say and 20 for melee.

-120 for a tanks
-80 for melee

Rampage power level = 200 renown points when it cames to aoe synergy.

If it's st it much much less (as above 30/40)

A solution could also separate on rampage st and aoe dmg severly lowerr the block / parry ignore when using aoe skills. If its left as an unicum it would be better balance for the larger scale rather than small one imo.
so what about bw/sorc class mechanic then? it gives you around 45*9 (anti crit ans still 11% missing) and the crit dmg (about 2 tacitic slots?)...in addition wouldnt a rampage nerf heavly hit slayers aoe abilies to the point, that it is not worth taking a slayer in wb? and isnt rampage more or less counter by gift of monstrosity? which should be okay cause gom is counter by bw dmg type? ror was still concepted as a classical rock sicssor paper game?
what about a bw/sorc meccanic?? its a 1!!!!meccanic!!!!..... joke aside it's a different league i confront skill with skill , they are think to work differently and btw

bw/sorc meccanic is on the radar or was to have no downside, we had a thread about it for brainstorming created from dev, for those who know forum history and are not the last arrived around.

for above post mara GoM is not balancing slayer in rvr they are both creating their own issue

nerf Gom/rampage will do just good for both sides, i d agree these skills are linked, in balancing each other right now but keep em in game harm other classes in rvr especially on order side where best set up is just bws/slayers +1 engi.
in fact i both support gom and rampage nerf altogheter , i even made a gom nerf proposal which would also make it more viable in smalla scale than know proc chancewise while stop to lol at rder p.dd in rvr

You could had oppose me if i would like to nerf bw....i want nerf 2 skills because it will allow both realm to access more variety in wb. If you nerf rampage while also gom the diff will be you will do the same dmg as all other mdd on tanks and vs mara as before BUT for all other order rdps? well sw became very good again, wl at least became mre viable, engi can be more thana rift bot.
Last edited by Tesq on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#88 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:35 pm

Dajciekrwi wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:30 am
peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:37 pm
wachlarz wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:30 pm

I will run if i see any Slayer ty for advicce. Its legit
Run, wait out the Rampage, build morales, wait for people to come - you do have choices.

You aren't forced with a gun to your head to facetank a rampage slayer.
So now You know why i always run before so called "fair fight" :D. You want a fair fight and then advice me to run or wait for more people!
Join Fat Squigs bro, we need one more cold blooded psychos like me, in our Fat Family :))
Wachlarz bro, y see, always run to kill a Slayer , follow me:)))
Aaaactually, you (as a Marauder) should be able to take down a Slayer 1v1 - if you play properly! 8-)
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#89 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:37 pm

9 pages in 24hours, decent.
Nerfed buttons threads should learn ;)
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#90 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:49 pm

Scrilian wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:32 am
Aurandilaz wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:38 pm Don't think Rampage is "Op", rather very strong. And becoming possibly too strong as more and more Slayers/Choppas finish Invader gear which allows them to reach +70-80 armor pen values - which with combination of Rampage will lead to future imbalances. Considering it's cheap cost at 5pts, possibly limit it to 50% strikethrough, not full 100%.
It isn't always used due to it's Rage cost, but when properly used and combined with very high armor pen values, can be pretty damn powerful.
Choppas keep playing without it, and do ok enough, Slayers also play similarly, even if at times Rampage allows them "easier" gameplay where they do not need to constantly reposition themselves due to enemy parry/block checks.
How about we touch on that pesky monstro arm as well then? I mean future imbalances should consider ever rising levels of armor and bla-bla baseline bla-bla too good :mrgreen:

Joking aside, could anyone post me this full invader WS penetration %? I've seen the new OP pen values thrown around here and there - yet I have serious doubts of anyone actually reaching those outside of RR90+ sets era.
Or being a mad lad and actually spending RR on flat stats, like 34 points for 120 WS :lol: But even then, I assume that the % is not that high, could be wrong here though.

On the side note, Slayer and Choppa are a pain to play in any kind of scenario, be it RvR, groups or solo, at least for me.
The punitive rage mechanic gives too much of a drawback for not much gain(i.e. you have to be red to deal any considerable amount of damage outside of gimmicky lul-yellow builds), but that again, the memories and legends of RR100 slayer :|-groups are somehow still raw among some of you folk, so you probably see this in quite a different light :D

I've thrown around couple of times the idea of applying the rage penalty only to the innate SL/CH stats, but not the gained buffs, like auras, potions, etc. which are currently halved as well.
This's the long awaited QoL change, that would make one consider taking those classes in more setups, make the life a bit easier and not just cause you to melt in 1.5 seconds outside of guard, while smashing your potions+ragedump+detaunt macro :mrgreen:
Yep, Mara will also need to be tuned down, 100% ignore is too much, if one day we want to move away from magic-bomb meta, and start bringing melee and physical dmg to warbands.
Atm I can reach 65% armor pen on Choppa, with +20% from Invader (while losing some Stats), should still be able to hang around 70-80 (though can invest in more Str talis due to 7pc giving better returns than WS talis - or wounds). Just need to farm 7 more forts can quit playing that cancer-PvP, though might just as well burn out before I finish my set...

Then you add in ST/AOE armor debuff Mara/WL debuffing for CH/SL in smallscale and dpsZ/dpsRP in largescale (assuming you bring 2-4 mdps, dpsRP eventually becomes worth picking). So taking into account the 800+ aoe armor debuff or so, effectively looking at 75-90% armor penetrations. Which is AFAIK subtracted from target defensive physical mitigation, say 100% armor from armor tali stack on defensive healers and gear stack on some targets, or maxed at 120-130% on some really armour stacking targets. So a tanky tank with 120% physical mitigation from armor, ends up only with 30% or so armor actually being in effect when the dmg lands. (ofc toughness will at that point mitigate more)
Which isn't actually too far from magical dmg resistances in the end, which are already softcapped at 40%.
[my math might suck at some points, sowwy]

However, you need not fear my Choppa, after all, your tanks can still parry/block my attacks. :P
But Slayers, well, fun times ahead. ;)

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