AoE damage

[adamthelc]

Yes they do

They have access to resist debuffs from various sources

Pretty much like armor debuffs, no?

Yeah in the lines of how Mara has access to an armor debuff or partial armor ignore option more than like choppa whose reliant on an armor debuff from an external source, don’t know if that’s what you meant

Since we are talking AoE and comparing BW/Sorc, they are also reliant on someone else for an AoE resistance debuff. There are a lot more AoE resistance debuffs flying around than AoE armor debuffs though.

Maybe it doesnt need to be changed on a choppa/slayer. They would still do low damage to high armor targets, but they might do too much to low armor targets.

SW/SH seems like a no brainers. Sweeping Razor and Broad severing should get the same treatment if that change is made. Even though there probably arent many people using it.

[Ysaran]

SW/SH seems like a no brainers. Sweeping Razor and Broad severing should get the same treatment if that change is made. Even though there probably arent many people using it.

Can you elaborate? I can find any "sweeping razor" or "broad severing"

[CountTalabecland]

Damage reduction on Flurry/LoC in return for 6 more targets is still worth it in WB because you are causing more net damage for the gcd the ability uses. Would it be cool not to have a reduction, sure, but with Reckless Gamble up it still does enough. Idk if 20%(720 damage) either way would really matter a ton for balance.

Of course this is assuming you are in a blob situation and are always going to be hitting 9 targets.

[Aurandilaz]

SW/SH seems like a no brainers. Sweeping Razor and Broad severing should get the same treatment if that change is made. Even though there probably arent many people using it.

Can you elaborate? I can find any "sweeping razor" or "broad severing"

They are tactics which allow WE/Wh Slice/Razor to hit multiple targets, which is about the only reason I manage to grind PVE dungeons on my WE without becoming suicidal in the process as the alternative would be to ST every mob you meet.

Anyway, Destro and Order both have AoE armor debuff potential from dps Zealot + RP (RP harder to use and close to a mythical creature). Then you have numerous sets, for classes like SW/Engi/SH that include armor debuff procs - which proc on AOE and with good luck you are squirting said debuff all over the place. In theory epic quest weapon for WE/WH would also allow AOE armor debuffing via a proc, but their limited AOE arsenal makes it nigh impossible to turn into a proper debuff spec like Zealot can.
You build whole Destro wb around said debuff potential from dps Zealot - 900 arm debuff on enemies, and Corp + healdebuff as well.
Then for Sorc/BW resis, you just bring the typical KOTB/Chosen to stand around with auras active.

[TenTonHammer]

Can you elaborate? I can find any "sweeping razor" or "broad severing"

Sweeping razor is a tactic for WH i dont recall broad severing off the top of my head

[roadkillrobin]

Damage reduction on Flurry/LoC in return for 6 more targets is still worth it in WB because you are causing more net damage for the gcd the ability uses. Would it be cool not to have a reduction, sure, but with Reckless Gamble up it still does enough. Idk if 20%(720 damage) either way would really matter a ton for balance.

Of course this is assuming you are in a blob situation and are always going to be hitting 9 targets.

You do more damage due to hitting more targets, that's basically the same as fluff damage. What you need is a good concentration of damage in a area. It's was an ok tactic when you combined it with BW/Sorc and WP/DoK proc buffs as that made up for the damage loss quit a bit. But due to 6man guild able to find an unbalanced use for those procs for single target damage they now come with a ICD and not being able to trigger as AoE's anymore, making the 3 to 9 target tactics not really worth considering.

[adamthelc]

SW/SH seems like a no brainers. Sweeping Razor and Broad severing should get the same treatment if that change is made. Even though there probably arent many people using it.

Can you elaborate? I can find any "sweeping razor" or "broad severing"

They are tactics which allow WE/Wh Slice/Razor to hit multiple targets, which is about the only reason I manage to grind PVE dungeons on my WE without becoming suicidal in the process as the alternative would be to ST every mob you meet.

Anyway, Destro and Order both have AoE armor debuff potential from dps Zealot + RP (RP harder to use and close to a mythical creature). Then you have numerous sets, for classes like SW/Engi/SH that include armor debuff procs - which proc on AOE and with good luck you are squirting said debuff all over the place. In theory epic quest weapon for WE/WH would also allow AOE armor debuffing via a proc, but their limited AOE arsenal makes it nigh impossible to turn into a proper debuff spec like Zealot can.
You build whole Destro wb around said debuff potential from dps Zealot - 900 arm debuff on enemies, and Corp + healdebuff as well.
Then for Sorc/BW resis, you just bring the typical KOTB/Chosen to stand around with auras active.

Yes, all of that is true.

Yet the aura debuff are so reliable you dont even have to list all of the other potential resistance debuffs that are out there.

Point being physical damage is more likely to be mitigated by a higher amount. But like I said with Choppa and Slayer I'm not sure that warrants a damage increase, because they can do pretty high damage to low armor targets. If there were a way to just have the 20% damage back against high armor targets, that would be something, but I dont know how you do that.

Can you elaborate? I can find any "sweeping razor" or "broad severing"

Sweeping razor is a tactic for WH i dont recall broad severing off the top of my head

It's the mirror Witch Elf tactic.

[zulnam]

I’m afraid that even if the change was made for SW/SH, the low damage would still make the tactic negligible.

Run N ‘Shoot might as well be called Potatoe for all the damage it does.

Range SH/SW need a bigger overhaul, one that sadly is probably a long way off since we recently had the melee trees buffed. “Yay”.

[Manatikik]

I’m afraid that even if the change was made for SW/SH, the low damage would still make the tactic negligible.

Run N ‘Shoot might as well be called Potatoe for all the damage it does.

Range SH/SW need a bigger overhaul, one that sadly is probably a long way off since we recently had the melee trees buffed. “Yay”.

WB viable SH/SW is an easy change away; revert the nerf to Expert Skirmisher +LA/STY, add Snare back to barrage, mirror barrage to SH, and revert changes to Outrider Patrol. You could even re-add in UF as a M3 for fun (though this isn’t as needed and has much larger ramifications outside of WB play).

[Tesq]

Ppl idk how you can say kobs/ch debuff are so good. They debuff half what they buff. Unless you have a full single res aoe debuff from magus/engi the dmg potential of sorc/bw go down drastically if enemy is geared to counter basically just the highest dps class in game....

Be able to debuff 150 res more or less make all the diff