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Throwing zones and suggestions

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#1 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:53 pm

It's same old story of throwing zones. but plz patience.

at reikland, north keep was order's.
one of hardest keep to take.

destro guild claimed keep and running supplies. pretty clear they aimed rank5 lock.
aao didn't rise more than 60%. It's 200vs200.
players showed great coordination to throw zone.
4~5 wb sitting at WC-postern farming contributions.

I attempted to start battle, shoot keep door with a cannon.
after first try, it's blocked by allies spawning cannons nonstop, drying cannon pool.

I get that they wanted fort.
also get that defending poison fort has high chance of success.
back to mid zone and chance to go farther. can't stay all day etc.

but 200 ppl coordinate to not fight? in war game?

alternative should been attacking other zone, fake retreat, for destro to attack reik keep.
to do that rank5 lock should go away.

rank5 lock was implemented when city was still developing, when end goal was locking zones.
infinite zone's denied end rewards, so rank5 lock was necessary.

now that we have city, it should be more reason to attack. sadly more reason to throw too.
because keep attack is too hard sometimes.

here's suggestion.
faster and easier keep attack.

1. siege weapons - faster respawn and more numbers. specially ram.
double the current rate.
2. after 3rd destruction of keep door, it's completely broken, permanently open and can't be repaired.
3. remove rank5 lock

and wish list
Spoiler:
new siege weapon to make new funnel. ladder or catapult.
divide one big funnel into x funnels.
5 at outer wall : main + 2 postern + 2 ladder
3 at inner keep : main + 1 postern + 1 ladder
2 at top floor : 1 lord room + 1 ladder
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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#2 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:04 pm

Throwing zones will continue for as long as throwing zones gives better (and more reliable) rewards than defending them.

Locking end-game loot to last-stage campaign means everyone is incentivized to chase the last stage campaign. Its not longer a struggle between two factions to win the zone and get rewards - its a cooperation to bring last stage closer because those are the real rewards.

It will continue for as long as Invaders/Royals are limited to Forts/Cities.
Adding them to regular zone rewards will solve part of the issue.
Orkni 85+ (in-game Grock is not me...)
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wargrimnir
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Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#3 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:26 pm

Orcapult from the event does exactly what you would expect it to do. I suspect those will be more generally available in the future.

Evidence of coordinated throwing can be reported to GM's. It is also possible to assume that people got into a brawl and are not thinking strategically in the process.
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#4 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:49 pm

Players are not stupid, if you get 4 invader from "losing heroically" in Reikland and then defendign ezmode poisonfort where enemies die to pve mechanic before they can even get close enough to hit Fortress Lord, compared to gain of 1 invader from pushing campaign away from Reikland... well you see why they choose one way to play over another.
You would need some actual campaign re-thinking to ensure people might get interested in defending zones. Once you have 2-3k vanq medals in inventory and just waiting for next city siege to get next gear, it becomes a mystery choice to push forts where you have 200 rdps on the walls while you as a melee can just afk culti in the rearline.

In the past there were various attempts to make flags matter more over spending hours funneling keeps, but not sure if all that campaign development is in the ice now. Wounds penalty is now very buggy and only applies at some keep areas and at times to the wrong side.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#5 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:45 am

wargrimnir wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:26 pm
Evidence of coordinated throwing can be reported to GM's. It is also possible to assume that people got into a brawl and are not thinking strategically in the process.

but after throwing, order showed same coordination to win at the fort.
it's good players coordinate. unfortunate they use it on wrong way.

I think small adjustments will guide them to right direction.

as said b4, if they wanted abandon A zone, they could go B zone. remaining forces who wanna fight can work together and face glorious defeat.
and get reservation for fort.

those who flee can attack other fort i guess or refuse to fight again, either way if you don't fight, don't deserve fort contents.

issue is they get fort by refusing fight.
removing rank5 lock is fix i think.
next step's little bit easy attacking.

if fighters keep going resistance, deserters have to wait several hours for city. they might think again.
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hammerhead
Posts: 308

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#6 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:48 am

There will be nothing to report. This is not literally coordinated action. But rather, a Work-to-rule action. It’s just that people already have a collective mind that tells them to “work half the strength and you will get 100% return.” All in the framework of game logic unfortunately.
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Starx
Posts: 336

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#7 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:25 am

If this is in response to the reikland take the day you posted this I actually remember what happened.

First of all destro had been losing keep sieges all day because attacking is AWFUL in this game when 200+ of defenders cram into one. We had Reikland/KV/Eatine all open and we literally had to split your zerg into 3 zones over idk how many hours before FINALLY we got the outer down in reikland without a thousand order being in the keep because we were at the same time hitting the other 2 zones I think there was almost 700 ppl in eatine at the time. Anyways because you guys couldn't respawn in the freakin keep anymore in reik we were able to pull everyone into reikland after outer was down and actually keep defenders at bay which is why you probably saw 4-5 warbands at the postern.

That was NOT a throw, that was hours upon hours of destro failing siege after siege until we finally got a situation where defenders weren't spawning inside the keep and there was 200+ ppl already in.


Sorry if it comes off as heated but, i really dont ever see people throwing. I can only remember one time where I saw a certain someones WB pull up to 3rd floor at fell landing. People like to meme and shitpost in chat about REALM PRIDE and throwing but people really dont actually do it. Otherwise we would be seeing city A LOT more than we are right now.

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toffikx
Posts: 281
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Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#8 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:51 am

Grock wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:04 pm Throwing zones will continue for as long as throwing zones gives better (and more reliable) rewards than defending them.

Locking end-game loot to last-stage campaign means everyone is incentivized to chase the last stage campaign. Its not longer a struggle between two factions to win the zone and get rewards - its a cooperation to bring last stage closer because those are the real rewards.

It will continue for as long as Invaders/Royals are limited to Forts/Cities.
Adding them to regular zone rewards will solve part of the issue.
This. Are people really suprised about why zones are being thrown? No amount of realm priding or reporting will solve a grind system, that does not incentivize people to defend pairings in any way.

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Cirronis
Posts: 13

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#9 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:47 am

Grock wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:04 pm Throwing zones will continue for as long as throwing zones gives better (and more reliable) rewards than defending them.

Locking end-game loot to last-stage campaign means everyone is incentivized to chase the last stage campaign. Its not longer a struggle between two factions to win the zone and get rewards - its a cooperation to bring last stage closer because those are the real rewards.

It will continue for as long as Invaders/Royals are limited to Forts/Cities.
Adding them to regular zone rewards will solve part of the issue.
I agree with this 100%, Making Royals drop from players with RR 70+2% of the time, and RR 80+ 5% and invaders drop from RR 602%, 70 5% and 80 10% would make fighting in the lakes alot better.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Throwing zones and suggestions

Post#10 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:04 am

hammerhead wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:48 am There will be nothing to report. This is not literally coordinated action. But rather, a Work-to-rule action. It’s just that people already have a collective mind that tells them to “work half the strength and you will get 100% return.” All in the framework of game logic unfortunately.
here's my suspicions.
thx to siege destroyed message, I could track cannon spawn.
full cannon is happening rarely even on attacking.
when sitting at keep, it's full for long?

it wasn't full b4 I shoot door to delay lock.
after that I saw whose ram( cannon ) was destroyed. almost same sec in a row. and I couldn't spawn new cannon after that msg, means they spawned it again asap.
call me paranoia but that's coordination to me.

that effort to throw zone and farm gears, i recommend simfarm for them.
not war game.
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BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
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