Choppa pull

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Shomy
Posts: 1

Choppa pull

Post#1 » Thu May 23, 2019 8:24 pm

Hello Devs i have problem like others in game it s about choppa pull 1st that is bugged and not normal he can pull from very big distance that is ruin game make people nervious and toxic and we dont want that like you we are all here to fun please nerf that pull and make correct distance people in battle who playing choppa all the time spam same skill over and over same is when you want to take a keep they spam this please fix that pull and nerf thank you

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Fey
Posts: 360

Re: Choppa pull

Post#2 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:44 pm

Write a proposal for why it should be altered.
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adapter
Posts: 24

Re: Choppa pull

Post#3 » Fri May 24, 2019 5:19 am

the skill have been nerfed 2 times already. First M3 won't work on GTDC, and second the speed buff has been lowered from 30% to 20%, range from 50 to 40.

Before the rework it was only a 30yard pull that nobody really used and Choppa was not popular. It was a really sad single target kamikaze, now atleast has the ability to pull so it has a purpose now.

Meanwhile Slayer have 100% bypass defenses buff for 20 seconds...

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Ysaran
Posts: 276

Re: Choppa pull

Post#4 » Fri May 24, 2019 5:34 am

Shomy wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:24 pm
Hello Devs i have problem like others in game it s about choppa pull 1st that is bugged and not normal he can pull from very big distance
1st pull doesn't work half of the time (I'm actually trying to report it on bugtracker), 2nd very big distance are 40ft, i.e. less than engies, WL, Mara and Magus pull, 3rd you can't choose your target!
Shomy wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:24 pm
That is ruin game make people nervious and toxic and we dont want that like you we are all here to fun
To me are ppl like you, that whine endlesly without knowing nothing that make a game toxic.
Shomy wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:24 pm
Please nerf that pull and make correct distance people in battle who playing choppa all the time spam same skill over and over same is when you want to take a keep they spam this please fix that pull and nerf thank you
Please, please please please, roll a choppa and try the ability yourself. No one with a bit of brain would just spam GTDC first because it has CD and second because it do shitty damage (480 every 2s, this is what you fear?)

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wonshot
Posts: 246

Re: Choppa pull

Post#5 » Fri May 24, 2019 6:39 am

Is Get to the choppa overperforming right now? Maybe.
Are people whining about this pull because they die 1v1 to choppas with too much sticking-power? Nope.
is it because a single choppa in 6v6 or largescale can use this ability and turn the fight with it? No.

The problem with Choppa pulls, is when you have several choppas chaining or all channeling the pulls. And while I absolutly apploud coordination and running tactics forcing your enemy to adapt, this seem to be a little too strong right now.

First of all, on this server alot of the "real" fights happends in funnels and this ability with the pull-on-the-move makes for some akward situations where choppas are constantly strifing in and out of Line of Sight while fishing out targets with their pulls. Again not too much of an issue if a single choppa was pulling a single target, but when several are doing it. You get some nasty effect.
Kinda like when a group of engineers are sitting outside of detaunt range on a wall, and you cant walk up close to them before you get a barrage of Snipes in your head, id Imagine. :roll:

In the open field fights this ability allows the choppa/desro deathball / bombwarband to stay on the move while gabclosing OR breaking order formations in a standoff. It will make single targets come flying towards the stacked destro aoe, and pull guards away from their gaurdees or simply just kill the random Orderling who is unfortune enough to be picked and send flying.

Organized vs organized. The displacements are real on destro to begin with, Zealot channeled punts, choppa pulls + magus pulls. This is a soft counter to the Order tactic of running melee Brightwizards and stack firepower on top of eachother.
While Order in general have the raw "powers" of both damage and healing, and destro have the utility and displacement advantage this can get a little too rough to deal with and basicly not allow you to play your character untill the fight is lost. Only mentioning this since TUP clipped it themselves and i couldnt help laughing myself when i happed:
https://www.twitch.tv/bomblingtv/clip/F ... ckDansGame

An other effect all this displacement brings, is that channeled abilities are just not happening when order goes flying all over the place. Hold the line stacks are not up, annihilate is not dealing damage, groupheals are not being casted. And add ontop of this all the other aoe interrupts destro have. Stopping channeled abilties kinda works as a sort of crowdcontrol, and to some degree this sort of CC is as impactful as the strongest CC for largescale = Aoe knockdown. It makes the affected targets unable to repossition themselves, they are unable to return the damage and are put on the backfoot for the duration of the CC while destro is hammering away in damage/healing.

Now I dont think this ability is overperforming in smallscale, and I dont think destro need nerfs. But adjustments.
How about giving choppas a real damaging ability in the aoe mastery tree here. Since I have a very hard time seeing a world where one realm having acces to this much replacement being anywhere near ballanced for largescale. And while the server right now seem to be order dominated I fear a direct nerf would not help this situation at all.

You could argue the range, the pull-on-move effect, or the undefendable effect (?) could all be looked at.
But dont we just want choppas to deal more damage instead, atleast thats what I think should be the solution when looking at the grand scheme of things

Background experience: Played vs several organized guilds as Order, faced choppa pulls half a year back and now.
Played destro warband with choppa pulls, and while it was against pugs the playstyle just simply was too easy leaving way too little room for counterplay


(Edit: Posted this here since the other choppa topic got closed while typing)
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gargharoth
Posts: 41

Re: Choppa pull

Post#6 » Fri May 24, 2019 7:04 am

Do you have to upset me in the morning? :?
Kupaczabra

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Ysaran
Posts: 276

Re: Choppa pull

Post#7 » Fri May 24, 2019 7:07 am

wonshot wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:39 am
Is Get to the choppa overperforming right now? Maybe.
Are people whining about this pull because they die 1v1 to choppas with too much sticking-power? Nope.
is it because a single choppa in 6v6 or largescale can use this ability and turn the fight with it? No.

The problem with Choppa pulls, is when you have several choppas chaining or all channeling the pulls. And while I absolutly apploud coordination and running tactics forcing your enemy to adapt, this seem to be a little too strong right now.

First of all, on this server alot of the "real" fights happends in funnels and this ability with the pull-on-the-move makes for some akward situations where choppas are constantly strifing in and out of Line of Sight while fishing out targets with their pulls. Again not too much of an issue if a single choppa was pulling a single target, but when several are doing it. You get some nasty effect.
Kinda like when a group of engineers are sitting outside of detaunt range on a wall, and you cant walk up close to them before you get a barrage of Snipes in your head, id Imagine. :roll:

In the open field fights this ability allows the choppa/desro deathball / bombwarband to stay on the move while gabclosing OR breaking order formations in a standoff. It will make single targets come flying towards the stacked destro aoe, and pull guards away from their gaurdees or simply just kill the random Orderling who is unfortune enough to be picked and send flying.

Organized vs organized. The displacements are real on destro to begin with, Zealot channeled punts, choppa pulls + magus pulls. This is a soft counter to the Order tactic of running melee Brightwizards and stack firepower on top of eachother.
While Order in general have the raw "powers" of both damage and healing, and destro have the utility and displacement advantage this can get a little too rough to deal with and basicly not allow you to play your character untill the fight is lost. Only mentioning this since TUP clipped it themselves and i couldnt help laughing myself when i happed:
https://www.twitch.tv/bomblingtv/clip/F ... ckDansGame

An other effect all this displacement brings, is that channeled abilities are just not happening when order goes flying all over the place. Hold the line stacks are not up, annihilate is not dealing damage, groupheals are not being casted. And add ontop of this all the other aoe interrupts destro have. Stopping channeled abilties kinda works as a sort of crowdcontrol, and to some degree this sort of CC is as impactful as the strongest CC for largescale = Aoe knockdown. It makes the affected targets unable to repossition themselves, they are unable to return the damage and are put on the backfoot for the duration of the CC while destro is hammering away in damage/healing.

Now I dont think this ability is overperforming in smallscale, and I dont think destro need nerfs. But adjustments.
How about giving choppas a real damaging ability in the aoe mastery tree here. Since I have a very hard time seeing a world where one realm having acces to this much replacement being anywhere near ballanced for largescale. And while the server right now seem to be order dominated I fear a direct nerf would not help this situation at all.

You could argue the range, the pull-on-move effect, or the undefendable effect (?) could all be looked at.
But dont we just want choppas to deal more damage instead, atleast thats what I think should be the solution when looking at the grand scheme of things

Background experience: Played vs several organized guilds as Order, faced choppa pulls half a year back and now.
Played destro warband with choppa pulls, and while it was against pugs the playstyle just simply was too easy leaving way too little room for counterplay


(Edit: Posted this here since the other choppa topic got closed while typing)
I make a proposal on the BDF say the same things (more or less). Hope they read it. GTDC need to be adjusted, but in case this happen need to see his damage increased. The fact that it is a channelling is a great handicap compared with ID

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1624

Re: Choppa pull

Post#8 » Fri May 24, 2019 7:22 am

For every Choppa your WB brings, it's not bringing a Sorc, so have you a thing called lost opportunity cost (a serious one now that Sorc brings M2 bomb and Choppa....does their own thing) - you bring the massive 4 target 40ft range pull, sitting on 20s cd, which when channeled stops both AA dmg and AP regen, and then you hope you pull something and they don't all have immunities from some random pug spamming AoE punts.
Assuming you play organized, and there is someone calling targets, having 4-6 BWs send a fast ranged nuke (possibly both BB + Sear which is fast to cast even if moving normally with wb), and poof, goes da chopa. (as they all tend to run max Berserk sitting at 100-200 resis left.
If the only thing causing a minor grievance to the 24/7 Order zergblob that is riding from Fort to Fort - is some ungabunga suicidal Choppa waving his arms around while slowly pulling 4 people over 6 seconds... well, I guess it must be the real Endtimes soon.

And yes, I also played least on Order vs 65ft choppa pulls, those were rough times, and 40ft feels barely worth mentioning as a threat compared to the previous version since they nerfed it last November - Choppa somewhat vanished during winter months and Order blob grew in size. Now since spring, when the big waaaghbosses announce that the choppa ungabunga armwaving pull da stunties with massive success - all da waaaghbois out again.
But does it stop the order zerg? Well, so far nope.

(edit; if Choppa loses more Warband value because Order salt can lead to nerfs? I can allways reroll, got enough options anyway, but in the end then we just get another conversation next year "why does no one care about Choppa aoe spec"? :) )

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zgolec666
Posts: 15

Re: Choppa pull

Post#9 » Fri May 24, 2019 8:19 am

> nothing wrong with choppa pull
> got pulled thru fence/floor in HP tower
> working as intended

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Ysaran
Posts: 276

Re: Choppa pull

Post#10 » Fri May 24, 2019 8:27 am

zgolec666 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:19 am
> nothing wrong with choppa pull
> got pulled thru fence/floor in HP tower
> working as intended
That's a problem of EVERY pull, so: yes, nothing wrong with Choppa's pull

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