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Choppa's problems

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman
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Ysaran
Posts: 1240

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#51 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:15 am

Bozzax wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:59 am Please dont mirror ID or move **** arround

Deal with the real issues
1. CF became fluff when BO was destroyed (lost snare, gained CD dec)

2. Keep on choppin is 100% **** and not worth speccing. It needs to be be ”similar” to rampage. That means it ideally bosts both AOE spec and ST spec
ok, i understend that you dont like my idea, can i know why? it will move only tactic that actually no one use, form that change only choppa will benefits, slayer will gain nothing, i dont see any cons.
this does not mean that there aren't cons, just that i dont see it.
if i miss something that make my proposal bad than tell me plz, i would like to have some constructive feedback
Zputadenti

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Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#52 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:23 am

Bc
Brute force = 11-12% ish sustained damage
DWLF = 7-8% ish and much needed pen
Flanking = positional but better then BF bc is a damage MULTIPLIER
SYG = 5% ish damage a bit more on a focused debuffed target (ineffective vs great players that stack -to be crit %).
IDB = not gonna try explain why 160 wounds are king in butst meta on a low mit class

Even Jagged Edge +5-6% ST damage, a tad better AOE

Using pent up rage, wot rules etc yields lower damage and no real up side.
Last edited by Bozzax on Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Ysaran
Posts: 1240

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#53 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:36 am

Bozzax wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:23 am Bc
Brute force = 12% sustained damage
DWLF = same ish and much needed pen
Flanking = positional but better then BF bc is a damage multiplier
SYG = 5-10% damage, not super good vs great players that stack -to be crit %
IDB = not gonna try explain why 160 wounds are king in butst meta on a low mit class

Even Jagged Edge +6-7% ST damage, a bit better AOE

Using pent up rage, wot rules etc yields lower damage and no real up side
Ty for the answere, but i disagree: to use more than one finisher subsequently have many advantage. in addition i'm not sure about your number, to use an ability while furious will make you deal more damage then using flanking. it's a tradeoff, if you want sustained damge you slot flanking, if you want burst you slot pent up rage.
Zputadenti

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Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#54 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:42 am

Red (BF, DWLF, Flanking, SYG and dual w)= 50% more aa and abilities

Pent up yellow = 25% loss of AA, 25% more on exhaust, -25% on non exhust, a flat 6-15% less damage on everything bc of need to slot pent up

Pent up red just less damage 6-15% on everything

Wot rules similar and more dangerous to slot

Most likely 2h to be able to use more exausts so further loss from less procs

/rip damage
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Ysaran
Posts: 1240

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#55 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:59 am

Bozzax wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:42 am Red (BF, DWLF, Flanking, SYG and dual w)= 50% more aa and abilities

Pent up yellow = 25% loss of AA, 25% more on exhaust, -25% on non exhust, a flat 6-15% less damage on everything bc of need to slot pent up

Pent up red just less damage 6-15% on everything

Wot rules similar and more dangerous to slot

Most likely 2h to be able to use more exausts so further loss from less procs

/rip damage
ok, i think that i'm starting to understand your reasoning but i still have a doubt: when you drop your rage you need to wait 15s to be berserk again. while slotting pent up rage this time decrease a lot. this would results in an increase of the damage of 25-50% in the 15s you have to wait to be berserk again. same goes for Wot rules, with the exeption that it is so risky that dont even worth to try.
anyway still dont get why you think that my proposal is bad. as i said this will not solve the problem but just let 4 tactic to have a chance to be slotted. actually no one use neither YGS, pent up rage, Long Lasta and Longer and Stonger.
Zputadenti

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Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#56 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:18 am

You dont (drop rage)

Not a choppa problem all classes have unused tacs
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Ysaran
Posts: 1240

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#57 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:34 am

are you kidding? if you dont drop rage you cant use any finisher. i should use only core ability and ignore exahustive ability? so the idea is to do less damage (core ability do less damage) and to be more squishy?
basicallly you are saying that the right way to play choppa is to ingnore his class mechanic, or i missunderstood?
imo the right way is to valorize class mechanics and not to ignore them
Zputadenti

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#58 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:41 am

Eh, Choppa has high potential, just need careful play and not going full "I see red better charge in and die" playstyle that seems to be common...

yesterday in TM
Image

Tactics, Str + Str/Ws + 9target lotsa + Wot Rules

I know it might not be best, but having Wot Rules allows me to use other buttons than Lotsa Choppin spammer, and at this point I'm very worried that my F-key in keyboard will break if I keep using too much of lotsa choppin (where its bound for me).
Furthermore, after 5 sec of entering combat, you enter Yellow. This gives +75% dmg modifier to Wild Choppin, and you have 10 seconds of combat to launch about 5-9 Wild Choppins for good burst (and AP pot because choppa always out of AP)
Also drinking AP pots like an APholic, having option for finisher to recover tiny bit of AP helps... 100 gain, 25 cost, actual gain of 75, well better than nothing I guess - obviously not as good as rampage, but I have it in hotbar anyway, even if 9 out of 10 times I use it in pve (damn mobs stealing AP).
GTDC is kinda nobrainer fight opener, you might pull 1-3 ppl as warm-up exercise, help your WB gain some morale, then fully engage. YerBleeding DoT out as much as possible, doesn't do high dmg but I guess every extra pressure helps (said ability should be doing much higher dmg, the DoT is laughably small portion of total dmg).
Subju proc weapon, city dungeon proc weapon - BS weapon for 5% extra dmg will help, though I don't think its gonna make massive difference, your mechanic gives you 50% so another 5% to get to 55% is very marginal gain.
Though I guess most of my kills come from finishing targets Sorcs have softened up - then launching Bring It On during "mop up" phase of the fights, while also using GTDC to pull in last strugglers while you/allies finish them.

I agree that many trees have "meh" to outright bad abilities/tactics. But so does Slayer. GTDC is the most highly valued thing on Choppa right now, without it, well, don't really see much reason to bring a Choppa into WB at all. Sorc does more dmg and higher dmg pressure, and from further away, and can bomb/pressure while kiting and at keeps too, whereas I just park my choppa in some bush and wait for the siege to end. Mara has wider toolkit and their dmg pressure is also very decent.

Would probably want to see some kind of buff to the weird 5pts "pve finisher" that gives small AP back (pots are higher gain lol).
Giving much more dmg risks causing imbalances. Giving more arm pen also might cause imbalanced. Rather would see more warband-valued tools in their AoE tree. (although this is problematic on Destro, since you have very wide variety of tools spread over BORK - dpsZealot - Mara - meleeSquig[RIP] - Chosen)
2 out of 3 tactics in AoE tree are also just terribad. 11pts is a joke, compared to other AoE class trees with 11pts tactics like BW Wildfire (that crits lul) etc... AoE snare being between 10-20-30-40 is also kinda weird, since it's random should at least be good random chance, maybe 20-30-40-50. And maybe turn CF! into dmg ability, so you could both do dmg and reduce CDs (just as Slayer does both dmg + increase CDs with Shatter Limbs, and BORK does dmg with WAAAAGH and reduces CDs)

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Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:41 am

RoR.builders - Choppa

Drop easy killin for BF if you have a zele/dok/chosen
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Choppa's problems

Post#60 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:43 am

Rly rvr kills to show choppa is Good ? U have spam loot of aoe and have killing blows. More aoe more wb vs wb more killing blows. Or just use art in siege. Weak prof.

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