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[Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#21 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:22 am

Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 am
Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 am 2/3 tanks in provide armor debuffs, so keeping the healdebuff is better than getting armor debuff. As next step, Slayers would want the same treatment.
Yeah, heal debuff is fine where it is now. Is Tired Already? that sucks hard. Tired Already? should be replaced by armor/ini debuff. Since Choppa can reach good armor pen I would preferably the initial debuff
What is wrong with a cooldown increaser? I don't think Choppa need more offensive capabilities, they are fine in this department. My main gripe with 2h builds is, they need too many tactics to work good.
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Ysaran
Posts: 1218

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#22 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:57 am

Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:22 am
Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 am
Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 am 2/3 tanks in provide armor debuffs, so keeping the healdebuff is better than getting armor debuff. As next step, Slayers would want the same treatment.
Yeah, heal debuff is fine where it is now. Is Tired Already? that sucks hard. Tired Already? should be replaced by armor/ini debuff. Since Choppa can reach good armor pen I would preferably the initial debuff
What is wrong with a cooldown increaser? I don't think Choppa need more offensive capabilities, they are fine in this department. My main gripe with 2h builds is, they need too many tactics to work good.
Well, Slayer have 120 not avoidable (due to rampage) wounds debuff instead of 5s CD increaser.
If you have armor/ini debuff you can skip Don't wanna live foreva/strong finish.
I really hope that with Bloodlord 2h Choppa can replace brute force with something else, tactic starvation is really bad atm.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#23 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:44 am

Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 am
TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:31 am If we some how managed to convince the devs to give choppa an armor debuff what amount do you guys think the value debuffed should be?

I don’t think we can’t do 1.5k like Mara or even 800 like bo

Maybe 300~600 at most?
2/3 tanks on destro side provide armor debuffs, so keeping the healdebuff is better than getting armor debuff. As next step, Slayers would want the same treatment.
Except that BG provides a 100% uptime outgoing heal debuff on top of the triple willpower debuff

There is no reason to run no more helpin if we go by this logic and no reason to blow rage for it if your group can provide it for you


Slayer players can try to complain be we all know their 2H tree is far superior, they have strong double burst, their wounds debuff is the best on order, spellbreaker is a unique option that’s not really outclassed either

Unlike choppas where there are just as good if not better options for both tired already and no more helpin
Last edited by TenTonHammer on Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#24 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am

Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 am
Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 am
TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:31 am If we some how managed to convince the devs to give choppa an armor debuff what amount do you guys think the value debuffed should be?

I don’t think we can’t do 1.5k like Mara or even 800 like bo

Maybe 300~600 at most?
2/3 tanks in provide armor debuffs, so keeping the healdebuff is better than getting armor debuff. As next step, Slayers would want the same treatment.
Yeah, heal debuff is fine where it is now. Is Tired Already? that sucks hard. Tired Already? should be replaced by armor/ini debuff. Since Choppa can reach good armor pen I would preferably the initial debuff
If heal debuff is fine as it is even through BG can provide a superior version why can’t tired already also “be fine as it is” even though BO can provide one just as good that didn’t require the choppa to drop rage for?
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Ysaran
Posts: 1218

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#25 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:16 pm

TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am
Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 am
Sulorie wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 am
2/3 tanks in provide armor debuffs, so keeping the healdebuff is better than getting armor debuff. As next step, Slayers would want the same treatment.
Yeah, heal debuff is fine where it is now. Is Tired Already? that sucks hard. Tired Already? should be replaced by armor/ini debuff. Since Choppa can reach good armor pen I would preferably the initial debuff
If heal debuff is fine as it is even through BG can provide a superior version why can’t tired already also “be fine as it is” even though BO can provide one just as good that didn’t require the choppa to drop rage for?
because incoming heal-debuff and outcoming heal-debuff stack and so you can debuff heal of 75% on healer. in addition No More Helpin' have the highest base damage, it's the only choppa ability which can crit on dummy for 3k and thus it is comparable with spellbreaker. Conversely while 5s CD increse is nice but the damage is not comparable with Devastat which inflict at least 1200 damage via wounds debuff. i mean Devastate inflict 1200 with non crit, it's just absurd considered that it hit always using rampage.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#26 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:05 pm

Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:16 pm
TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am
Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 am
Yeah, heal debuff is fine where it is now. Is Tired Already? that sucks hard. Tired Already? should be replaced by armor/ini debuff. Since Choppa can reach good armor pen I would preferably the initial debuff
If heal debuff is fine as it is even through BG can provide a superior version why can’t tired already also “be fine as it is” even though BO can provide one just as good that didn’t require the choppa to drop rage for?
because incoming heal-debuff and outcoming heal-debuff stack and so you can debuff heal of 75% on healer. in addition No More Helpin' have the highest base damage, it's the only choppa ability which can crit on dummy for 3k and thus it is comparable with spellbreaker. Conversely while 5s CD increse is nice but the damage is not comparable with Devastat which inflict at least 1200 damage via wounds debuff. i mean Devastate inflict 1200 with non crit, it's just absurd considered that it hit always using rampage.
I’m well aware they stack but so does BG soul killer with all inc heal debuffs on top of triple debuffing healers willpower with mind killer, on top of that because mindkiller has no cooldown so while no more healpin can be cleansed soul killer essentially cannot be hence the 100% uptime


The damage it does is not a huge selling point for me as the damage differential between no more helpin and weaklin killa is not that huge
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#27 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:23 pm

Ironicly the bug was actually making the Mastery kinda playeble-ish (This bug been around for several years).
Now there's no point playing 2hander Mastery imo. Using any other exhaust other then the KD is a complete waste of dps and GCD.
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Ysaran
Posts: 1218

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#28 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:32 pm

TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Ysaran wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:16 pm
TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 am

If heal debuff is fine as it is even through BG can provide a superior version why can’t tired already also “be fine as it is” even though BO can provide one just as good that didn’t require the choppa to drop rage for?
because incoming heal-debuff and outcoming heal-debuff stack and so you can debuff heal of 75% on healer. in addition No More Helpin' have the highest base damage, it's the only choppa ability which can crit on dummy for 3k and thus it is comparable with spellbreaker. Conversely while 5s CD increse is nice but the damage is not comparable with Devastat which inflict at least 1200 damage via wounds debuff. i mean Devastate inflict 1200 with non crit, it's just absurd considered that it hit always using rampage.
I’m well aware they stack but so does BG soul killer with all inc heal debuffs on top of triple debuffing healers willpower with mind killer, on top of that because mindkiller has no cooldown so while no more healpin can be cleansed soul killer essentially cannot be hence the 100% uptime


The damage it does is not a huge selling point for me as the damage differential between no more helpin and weaklin killa is not that huge
ok but i dont get your point. you asked me why No More Helpin was ok and Tired Already? was not ok. I answered you that was because No More Helpin synergize with Can't Stop Da Chop and have high damage while Tired Already? dont synergize with anything and have laughtable damage compared to Devastate.
In addition i would like to say that high damage is a selling point because with No More Helpin' you bring both damage+utility while with Tired Already? you bring just utility since the damage isn't comparable to Weaklin' Killa and.
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#29 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:33 pm

TenTonHammer wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:05 pm
I’m well aware they stack but so does BG soul killer with all inc heal debuffs on top of triple debuffing healers willpower with mind killer, on top of that because mindkiller has no cooldown so while no more healpin can be cleansed soul killer essentially cannot be hence the 100% uptime


The damage it does is not a huge selling point for me as the damage differential between no more helpin and weaklin killa is not that huge
With 2h BG, you have a hard time speccing healdebuff tactic, when going for mid path to get parry tactic and aoe snare.
Dying is no option.

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: [Choppa] Path of Da'Hitta (2H)

Post#30 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:22 pm

Get a WE if you want stacking heal debuff. Choppa CD is absurdly high and outgoing HD doesn't make much sense on a tank unless it's PBAoE or Cone as you arn't really gonna have the positioning to use it 90% of the time.
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