[Choppa] Beating on a non-meta horse, 2H builds gone wrong?

[Whynoth]

First up, I do like the meta DW build, it's brainless fun.

But I can't get the idea of finding a "viable" 2H build out of my head.
I do understand that choppas are desired AOE DD, and that turning them into a ST DD would make them clunky, back-loaded WE without any sneakiness or disengage leap. Also, the RR70+ GTtC Choppa build is a good enough ST option to stop any argument about the desirability of current 2H builds outside of small-scale.

That being said, I've been thinking way too long on some builds and would like some feedback, even if it's just "ewww nope".
Being a special unicorn, of course I gave them cringy names...

1/ The old hag
Actually the "standard" RR70+ 2H build as far as I'm aware. Requires a ton of +crit %, posted here for reference purpose only. You get the picture, outgoing Healing + incoming Healing debuff, Furious Choppin' for self sustain, stay outside of Berzerk! gauge & hope for the best.

2/ Ghetto Chop-Chop
If you can't wait RR70+ to start experimenting with long shafts, this is a RR50+ option that replace NMH with WKilla, uses Strong Finish Tactic to complement the probable lackluster bonus crit chance at that stage of progress, same basic concept as above, just downgraded. Although the difference between NMH & WK is about 5-8% dmg, so technically, this has more output but less utility.

3/ Healer Hater
Variation on the previous two, you can't do jack if your target is healed while there's no incoming heal debuff applied by one of your mates, but you can mess up an unsupported healer pretty bad, pretty fast.

4/ Premature Emasculator
Yes, I am aware I have a slight obsession with strong finish, but bear with me for a sec.
1. Stack up Slasha during chill gauge, one free GCD for utility ?
2. As soon as Furious dunk NMH, WK and if it's not enough, RB. Refresh Slasha.
(I do wish the abilities were like on RoR builder with GFDSS in Hitta tree, that's what gave me the idea for this build. But I understand this is a good change for the Savage / Wreka spec)
3. If target is still alive, don't worry, you'll probably be taking a nap quite soon. Else, you can enjoy the unsustainable AP costs of step 2 every 5sec.

You guessed it, the last one is the one I'm most puzzled about. It's nasty, clunky and, at best, a short fuse glass-cannon. But still, what if ?

[Malecus]

Man, I havent played 2h choppa here, but I mained one in retail and their burst potential was nuts. Running down healers and wizards and taking them out in a few hits was so addicting.

[Illuminati]

I run it here and there (similar to the first one). You really need good gear so you can skip [Brute Force] in order to get [Pent up Rage]. Need someone else to inc heal debuff.

The other build I run skips [Furious Choppin] so you can get all that + [Bleed em Out]. Bleed em Out is nice if they aren’t cleansing that well. You can get a crazy [Bleed em Out], [Auto-Attack], [No More Helpin] 6k on someone.

It’s fun to see the big numbers but feels tactic starved. Too bad the Sov bonus didn’t give +2 Mastery to the first tree. Would make the build more viable.

[Whynoth]

Haven't played on live so I wouldn't be able to compare.

However, the ability to seemingly pop a squishy in a couple of GCD is definitively here, but it comes with a very rigid set of conditions :

Your best window for getting a fat exhaustive blow crit is the Furious state of your gauge, wich normally reset the gauge back to the chill state where you don't do anything impressive.
So the trick is to choose one 10s CD exhaustive blow (ideally NMH as it has the highest base value) and use it strictly on cool down.
This causes you to maximize the number of ExBlows and the uptime of Furious state wich leads to decent slasha / GFDSS fillers.
Miss that window and you'll find yourself squishier and not as dangerous. (better wild choppin' into empty space rather than become a BW nuke magnet)

By extension, if you ever happen to fall victim of a CC effect during that Furious window, it is absolutely possible that you will be mechanically denied your ideal setup for your nuke simply by the clock ticking while your gauge fills up. This is... frustrating to say the least. Especially when you consider the lack of setup necessary for the resident blue furries to drop equally impressive numbers, while keeping an on-command KD option you don't have access to outside of Berzerk, the place 2H Choppa doesn't want to be in. #removeWL

Aditionally, you rarely get to use Furious Choppin' to it's full potential, either burning it 1sec before becoming Furious and using the full duration albeit with a weaker first tick, cutting it before the last tick to dump your rage on an exhaustive blow, or risking getting wombo'ed by using it while Berzerk, knowing that your follow-up ExBlow won't be maximized.

Following that logic, since you gamble most of your burst on that 10sec CD nuke, if it gets parried or blocked, you're a really sad panda. Parry reduction and Drop Da Bassa are your second best friends after crit bonus.
But you won't get much uptime on DDB, so overall, you're much more efficient on Rdps & Healers (exept those pesky-tanky-filthy melee WP).

The fact that Sov mastery bonus is for the Hitta tree is a throbbing middle finger to 2H builds, it could've been Savage, but no. fun ist verboten ;(
I know I'm not selling the 2H well, but my love for the spec isn't about it's reliability, it's about sending a message... from a pair of shoulders to about 60 yards over there.

[Whynoth]

Yeah, about BeO, I'm skittish about going that route because of the regularity of purges happening on either small scale or RvR, as if healers had something against other people's dots...

Also, it is most definitively tactic starved, the usual trinity of Brute Force, Don't Wanna Live Foreva' & Stab You Gooder can be somewhat mitigated by investing into Str Renowns, but I haven't found a good setup that the DW build wouldn't do somewhat decently for far cheaper.

[Wdova]

I tried to spec for Bleed Em OUt several times with different specs, but I always ended up with respec to just avoid this skill. Its 10s duration, but only last 2 ticks hit for some good damage. Outside of 1v1 which is only place I found it useful, a) it get cleansed b) target die sooner than it could proc higher damage C) last crit hit dummy for 2k dmg but in real life it hit for 800-1k ish.
On paper or on dummy skill looks OKish, but in real situation its worthles.

[phononHYPE]

I like Bleed Em Out, given me a few kills as they run (or after they kill me). It's a good tool, but one that you don't always have to use. I find its good for keep rams if you're running in and out, city stage 2 Lords, or when single targeting in some mad melee AM or RP that are busy spamming aoe heals. But it is always the first thing to get cut when respecing.

Rest of your stuff looks neet, and I respec enough to try one out perhaps. I would also say you gotta look at Pent Up Rage more. It's my favorite, but I also play 2h so technically am brain ded vs any "good" DW meta chopster out there. Cheers for finding another 2h-damn-it-I'll-make-this-work person.

[Whynoth]

About Pent Up Rage, there are several points that make me avoid it :

1. It takes 5sec for the gauge to go from 0 (chill) to 25 (furious) whereas it takes 4sec for one stack to build.
So without Wot Rules, you will cap on stacks.

2. NMH > WK > RB, only the last one doesn't have a 10sec CD.
I don't build planning on a Waaaagh / Chop Fasta buff buddy, and I tend to use the furious state to place some slashas +25% dmg, with an ExBlow right before Berzerk! stage.
So on a standard build using one single Exblow, assuming I'm 2H, I would build 2.5 stacks between each reset.

3. NMH is the best ExBlow in the Hitta kit, best damage, best utility, best AP cost.
I don't feel the need for reducing the cost to 11ap, this ain't what's draining my bar.

Now, on a Wot Rules 2H deathwish build, I'm not planning for the long game, either you kill your target in a single fat rotation of NMH - WK - RB or you're pretty useless since you'll be locked in Berzerk for the rest of the fight. I don't think that kind of build is credible outside of very end gear when you have enough Str & Ws to free up the Brute Force & Dont Wanna Live Foreva tactic slot.

So Four tactic slots, you'll use one for Stab You Gooder, because your whole point is big numbers, one for Wot Rules to enable the wombo ExBlow combo, with the two remaining slots, you can choose to either :
a. Buff your offensive stats,
b. Reduce the AP cost of WK by 10 and RB by 8 AP, (and a meager 4 ap on NMH)
c. Increase your probability of big numbers on your Exblow by 15%,
d. Enable a transition to a more frequent although slightly downgraded combo once you hit Berzerk state by reducing every CD on your Exblow to 5sec. (I would completely take RB out of the rotation at that point since it's base damage is the same as GFDSS)

So, imo, Pent Up Rage has no perfect scenario for 2H.
I'm making perfect smoke loops in a vacuum, I know, but I don't see the benefit being worth that tactic slot. (a notable exeption being the DW Hitta spec but where's the fun in that ?)

[phononHYPE]

I'm not following your first point, sorry. You will be entering battle with full stacks, but that is not the point for me as you still have to wait just a touch to use the PUR to good use. At 50% enrage you can drop your first exhaustive blow if you like and stay yellow. First 6-8 seconds of a fight, PUR < Wot Rules for sure. Point 2 is fine and dandy, and on point 3 I don't know where the AP reduction is coming from. It's moot I'm assuming, as you point out, not much difference between a great costed 15 AP and some 11 version of it. Easy Killin is great for keep or fort defense when you just sit at a side and spam your aoe, as a side note.

Here is Pent Up Rage for me; you come late to the party and leave everything a mess. Get in some aoe, Fling Choppa, maybe Your All Bleedin a tank... w/e, sit back and get angry. Or just drop Wild Choppin whenever you want and use the constant damage bonus from yellow/red as a bonus, then drop NMH or WK as needed. The point being to get your Can't Stop Da Chop on someone and perhaps triple-stack Slasha if needed, then drop your hits. NHM hits last, when your enraged (yellow) as that's extra damage for that big big spike. If you can swing it, my ideal hits (with CSdC already up) is: Sit Down > WK > NHM.

I do like the Red Goes Faster + Wot Rules, that is just plain fun with just cycling Can't Stop da Chop > NMH > WK then maybe Wild Choppin/YAB! or Don't Go Nowhere. Man, had a BG tank that kept up with me and I think a zealot running behind him once and I waded through about 10 order (low rr for sure, but still fun). That is a fun build, even in City with halfway decent group.

Lastly, I leave you with another fun build I've enjoyed, the 2H aoe super-fun-happy-time build. Your party gets Chop Fasta!, and you get "aoe". Love this for heavy pop days, but have to spec out quickly for other things.

I feel most 2H choppas will get a lot out of your stuff, as mine is very "I'm bored, what can I do" type play-style. I like pugs as much as organized, and have enough gear to play around and enough rr to cover my sloppy play style. Nothing says fun like 1056 Str, 946 WS, and 980 Wounds unbuffed. Seriously, get that Beastlord cloak, ring, and book. You WILL you that forever - WAAAAGH!!

[Whynoth]

Woah, thx dude, you made me realise I was reading PuR wrong, I was sure it reduced AP cost not rage cost...

Yeah, that... that opens up soo many new possibilities... I feel very dumb Rn

Ima need to plug that new toy in them winkies, this is... promising.