Chosen are underperforming vs Kotbs in group play

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

Lol, never thought i'd see peter taking up for chosen. I was arguing with you on how inadequate they were back in early 2018, lol. You were wanting to keep the status quo of chosen inadequacy back then. What made you change your mind exactly? I find it ironic, given that with the toughness nerf DPS chosen is finally viable. As far as squishiness goes, lots of classes suffered from the toughness nerf as well as all the RDPS buffs. I just hope they don't change anything big on chosen, besides reverting things back to 2015 like crippling strikes, for instance. The guy with the chosen in his sig, seems to always want to radically change things about the class for some reason. We sure don't need a tactic, to make rending blade "undefendable" when it's ALREADY undefendable. That's a horizontal nerf; if there's one thing chosen absolutely do not need in any conceivable way, it's anything remotely resembling a nerf.

I remember when interrealm chat was still implemented, enemy groups in SCs constantly making fun of chosen with "Hey i know what you guys need... more chosen!" because of what garbage they were.

One thing i will disagree with you on peter, is the idea that classes that are overrepresented don't mean they're overpowered. See DPS AM.

Class overrepresentation, while not infallable, has always been a good indicator on how overpowered a particular class is. That's common knowledge not open for debate, in the MMORPG world, just FYI.
That's the reason you see tons of DPS AM here, you saw tons of bonedancers/archers/assassins in DAOC, and the reason you'd see tons of scourges/daredevils in GW2.

I was just on the daoc phoenix server a couple of months ago, they buffed dual wield by 20 percent, and gave warrior-like defense penetration to assassins. They also gave casters toa like damage and cast speeds, without the TOA being necessary. Guess which class archetypes are overrepresented on phoenix?

Then you dont know the chosen because the guy with the chosen big image know that cripple.strike in live did NOT stack with other dmg reduction font. I and other expressy told this to aza at the time.

But a tactic not stacking is not consistently with the rest of the game thats why at some point someone made it stack (aza again) ....then it was ofc nerfed (you could reach 100% of dmg reduction both in sc/rvr even in s+b).
By swapping the 2 effect on rending blade And CS you have the same effects as before BUT it dosent stack...because "skill type"dosent stack with other "skills type" (so no more cs +challenge stack....).

Hope i enlighted you a little with my fix (not radical change lol).

P.s: did you even red what i wrote, where do you find "radical change? Those are all fix like oppression one, to % values or ap or CD. Unless you refer to someone else...

[peterthepan3]

((Sarcasm mode On))
It is such a bad class that you can never see one. Nobody wants to play it. You enter in an scenario and no destro tanks at all, way less a Chosen.
((Sarcasm mode Off))

Now, come on, are you freaking serious? 1 out of 6 destro players is a Chosen in most of the situations. There are literally more tanks in destruction realm than dwarves in Ekrund.

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

If you are allowed to comment AND harash ppl using PMs, I'm allowed to have, and share, my opinion. Only read first line, not worth to follow up. Coming from you, probalby a lot of subtle insults, ad hominem falliceies (AKA as insults that try to undermine other person opinion), and a lot of black-and-white fallacies (AKA if this happens, a catastrophe will happen).

Honestly, I would really like to ignore you forever, but sadly I'm not familiar enough with the forum to do so. Give me time.

blabla sensitive feelings blabla nothing of value added to the discussion.

@Jimsey

If you can tell me how Chosen are OP, I'm all ears.
I'm also curious as to how DPS AM are OP when you rarely see them in groups/wbs, and when you factor in the nerfs they have received to both healing and spec diversity? Or are you referencing their potency in pugville?

[DokB]

I want to make a Chosen for 6v6 because I’m bored and I’m probably delusional that one day the devs will unfuck the Chosen.

Since this seems like the best thead for it, what’s the best current setup and masteries for pure 6v6 stuff? Serious answers only please. :^)

[herooftime]

Holy cow! There are way too many insults being thrown around in this forum. We are all adults here, please act like it. Why is it so hard to have a friendly conversation about the Chosen class? I get that everyone is passionate about their classes, but we are all on the same side here. We all want to see Chosen on par with the rest of the tank classes. At least there is one thing we can all agree on, and that is that mirroring the classes is not a solution. In my opinion, a lot of the ideas that Tesq has posted are good and although I understand why some of you disagree, I encourage all of you to follow his example by critically thinking about the class and offering your own solutions.

[chokeanutsman]

KOBS can get an R4 (Which is going to be VERY often attainable in a Moral Bomb meta) AoE morale drain to zero, Chosen doesn't have that. BG doesn't have that, Black Orc's version is a DOT, right? Gives Order time to just improvise with an R2 R3 morale, KOBS won't allow you to morale at all in a smartly played morale bomb meta. In addition to the other facts that was stated, that difference actually is insane in a smartly played morale bomb meta.

I thought Chosen was supposed to be the one "demoralizing" their enemy because it's the evil counterpart, why does KOBS have this? Maybe either side shouldn't have this at all, but that's a discussion for later I guess.

The argument that says "Chosen isn't competing with KOBS" is stupid as well because it is a cop out term that attempts to not fix the obvious imbalance in terms of identity and effectiveness. Nobody asked to give Destro WL and KOBS.

To whoever said this, you implying "Everything is fine as is" is pretty stupid because we won't reach balance while keeping the identity and theme of a class in tact with this mentality. Be it as it may that Chosen isn't "competing" with KOBS but none of the destro tanks have that theoretically OP R4 (Unless this has been changed/nerfed) or ANYTHING truly equivalent to frontline R4 like that.

But on topic though, since Chosen is the "evil" counterpart of KOBS, why can't we start by giving Chosen a "Fear Me" (1-3 second fear, [can balance the numbers into Warhammer standards, maybe give it a speedbuff while feared] depending on how close you are) ability like from GW2, could be an R4 morale too could be a tactic, who knows. Be careful with buffs like this though (doesn't have to be my idea) because things like this could be an indirect buff to Choppa for example in RvR.

[herooftime]

Maybe devs should just remove Knight's solar flare and give it to Chosen for a few months just so order can know how it feels.

[Tesq]

if you red the moral rewamp proposal (dev) it schedule to be cut half or anyway nerfed.

Chosen problems are not kobs problem tought. Chosen have its own issues always ignored because it's "chosen" and auras and other shits like that from ppl clearing not understanding a ****....like bitching about chosen/kobs aura when BO/Sm do the same....

usually the problem is not comparing classes enough, on chosen case it's probable the opposite too much comparison (wrongly done ) that dont allow anything to get fix..... just to reiterate we have the same problems on CH/IB from 10 years which are the same.....

[herooftime]

if you red the moral rewamp proposal (dev) it schedule to be cut half or anyway nerfed.

Chosen problems are not kobs problem tought. Chosen have its own issues always ignored because it's "chosen" and auras and other shits like that from ppl clearing not understanding a ****....like bitching about chosen/kobs aura when BO/Sm do the same....

usually the problem is not comparing classes enough, on chosen case it's probable the opposite too much comparison (wrongly done ) that dont allow anything to get fix..... just to reiterate we have the same problems on CH/IB from 10 years which are the same.....

I honestly hate the idea of nerfs, they usually end in a huge community back lash. Instead I propose that they just buff the classes that are under performing, ie giving Chosen solar flare or fixing rending blade. No one will feel like they are losing anything and the game will become a better more balanced game.

[Warfare80]

So people still cry about Solar Flare, but not even whispering about mara moraledrain?
Sure give chosen the Solar Flare AND then give order the moraledrain. They you will find out something funny, you NEVER gonna hit morale 4 against organized WBs. You are lucky if you can reach m2 a few times / night.

[Tesq]

So people still cry about Solar Flare, but not even whispering about mara moraledrain?
Sure give chosen the Solar Flare AND then give order the moraledrain. They you will find out something funny, you NEVER gonna hit morale 4 against organized WBs. You are lucky if you can reach m2 a few times / night.

I made a proposal to fix wh tactic (simple remove positional requirement) because that is where mara mirror moral drain is, and belong to order side, if someone would like to fix aoe wh/we core functionality aswell...oh yes forgot...balance section is an illusion plus we alredy have it but someone decided to throw everything in thrash bin......guess who was.