About Survival BG Vs IB

[Alfinnete]

Hello folks!

Well, I have a question, which looks more like feedback =)

Although I play from both sides I do not have the habit of changing sides so the **** stinks from the side I'm logged in.

I have an IB and a BG, both at close levels, similar statuses and equipment also very much resemble each other. In the balance they are practically the same.

What I want to say is that I have an impression that the defensive IB is ahead of BG, I'm not quite sure how to explain it, but playing with both of them I see that the IB lasts longer and the skills are less stressful for the player performing the rotations and mechanics of defensive IB skills require less of the class cast bar. While the BG needs to be longer with the active cast bar, it is more hard to keep rotations.

Another strange thing I notice is that my IB with less Disrupt, parry, dodge and block manages to stay longer standing. This gives me the feeling that the IB needs less time to get ready to take the fight while BG seems to need more time ...

I may well be mistaken, it may be that the classes that usually slaughter the dest tanks are more OP in the order.

So I am not making a criticism, I just want to share this with you, determine if anyone else feels the same and if they can pass on tips on how to keep BG longer alive and useful.

[hammerhead]

Well, it will be very abstract without understanding what kind of activity interests, renown and carreer builds.

[rocc]

May be orders hit harder than the chaos ?

I do not have order's caracters with high level but i have a BG and a Chosen.

My BG is in "amor's Conqueror" and my chosen is in "ruin", with two times less of renown.
My impression is the chosen resist better.
Like you, i find than my chosen with less of Disrupt, Parry, Dodge and Block is harder to kill vs my BG.
May be just an impression and it's should necessary to analyze the logs because an impression is not always the true.

For me, the BG is no easy to play and lack of true spell to recover his health. The BG performs well when the level of hate is high but dies often before she gets there. Besides the BG are not the most numerous tanks.

[Dammy095]

its not only those classes who you play but who you face agaisnt you

order can kill you with rampage ignoring block/parry from slayer, undefendable firebals and critting wildfire tactics from bw , stacking pierce defence debuffs which reduce your defensive stats by 45%+ from engis not to mention snipe squads, WL burst, 10% striketrough tactic from AMs, etc etc

while on IB your only threat are good sorcs and WE if you let them gachi you from behind

its just order having easier time hitting destro tanks, not IB being betetr than BG
im playing order for last 3-4 months its so much easier to be tank there

[Eathisword]

To OP : Imo you are correct. From a defensive standpoint, IB is in a better place because of all the recent/old changes.

At their core, Ib and BG function the same but are fundamentaly different. IB is good at buffing armor and somewhat resist, + it has armor tactic and crit damage reduction + plain damage reduction tactic with shield.

BG is better at buffing avoidance from tactic and buffing toughness to insane levels.

The changes RoR went through... when avoidance was king and there was no toughness cap, BG was devastation machines. Now that avoidance are fairly bad, the formula to calculate them making them less worthwhile than before (+ dot damage can no longer be avoided); and that toughness is capped at 75%, BG lost most of its defensive edge.

All the while, tank need to rely more on armor and resist now (since toughness is capped) and IB is just plain better at stacking those. And finally, with the new gear getting all dps classes overcapped on main attacking stats and huge crit value, IB's plain damage reduction tactic is better than ever, same with Seen it all Before crit damage reduction.

To others : this has nothing to do with Order is best, no its destro.... gna gna gna. It is only the side effect caused by numerous changes on how stuff works that were ''probably'' not taken into consideration by the devs.

[hammerhead]

I can’t compare to direct survival as my IB has a full venq and BG only ruin, but in general at high levels I feel that IB very fixated on itself and lacks some variability as BG.

[peterthepan3]

To OP : Imo you are correct. From a defensive standpoint, IB is in a better place because of all the recent/old changes.

At their core, Ib and BG function the same but are fundamentaly different. IB is good at buffing armor and somewhat resist, + it has armor tactic and crit damage reduction + plain damage reduction tactic with shield.

BG is better at buffing avoidance from tactic and buffing toughness to insane levels.

The changes RoR went through... when avoidance was king and there was no toughness cap, BG was devastation machines. Now that avoidance are fairly bad, the formula to calculate them making them less worthwhile than before (+ dot damage can no longer be avoided); and that toughness is capped at 75%, BG lost most of its defensive edge.

All the while, tank need to rely more on armor and resist now (since toughness is capped) and IB is just plain better at stacking those. And finally, with the new gear getting all dps classes overcapped on main attacking stats and huge crit value, IB's plain damage reduction tactic is better than ever, same with Seen it all Before crit damage reduction.

To others : this has nothing to do with Order is best, no its destro.... gna gna gna. It is only the side effect caused by numerous changes on how stuff works that were ''probably'' not taken into consideration by the devs.

All you need to know ^

[tazdingo]

Another strange thing I notice is that my IB with less Disrupt, parry, dodge and block manages to stay longer standing

a true killer will hit you in the back and have a myriad of strikethrough enablers. avoidance helps against attrition and guard dmg, not burst

i'm not the most elite player by a long shot but i have a lot of exp with turtle tanking, and yeah IB > BG. i think SM > IB when it comes to solo flag tanking, but that's such a niche thing it barely matters i guess. IB is currently king turtle

- i see volg posted ye take his word as law. i forgot about the flat damage reductions they are soooo nice and exclusive to IB? non shatterable ones anyway

[SmackdownNinja]

Volgograd hit the nail on the head, so it is hard to add anything else really. Avoidance changes hit the BG hard, but it was still in an ok position regarding defense. However, the toughness cap nerf really hurt BG due to one of its best Defensive tactics becoming useless. BGs relied on stacking toughness, due to no being able to stack resistances, armor, and straight dmg reductions as easily as the other tanks can. This has left BG in a somewhat awkward state.

They were never particularly wanted in RVR due to their selfish nature, but could sometimes find a WB spot due to crimson death. After the removal RH and toughness cap its even more of a liability to run a BG in a wb due to other tanks being tankier AND bringing more utility then the BG. Also the new sets coming out for dps that will make it even more painful for the BG stay up defensive wise with the other tanks.

[CeeJay89]

To OP : Imo you are correct. From a defensive standpoint, IB is in a better place because of all the recent/old changes.

At their core, Ib and BG function the same but are fundamentaly different. IB is good at buffing armor and somewhat resist, + it has armor tactic and crit damage reduction + plain damage reduction tactic with shield.

BG is better at buffing avoidance from tactic and buffing toughness to insane levels.

The changes RoR went through... when avoidance was king and there was no toughness cap, BG was devastation machines. Now that avoidance are fairly bad, the formula to calculate them making them less worthwhile than before (+ dot damage can no longer be avoided); and that toughness is capped at 75%, BG lost most of its defensive edge.

All the while, tank need to rely more on armor and resist now (since toughness is capped) and IB is just plain better at stacking those. And finally, with the new gear getting all dps classes overcapped on main attacking stats and huge crit value, IB's plain damage reduction tactic is better than ever, same with Seen it all Before crit damage reduction.

To others : this has nothing to do with Order is best, no its destro.... gna gna gna. It is only the side effect caused by numerous changes on how stuff works that were ''probably'' not taken into consideration by the devs.

Wait wait wait, slow down. What avoidance changes? Recent or super old? Please elaborate.

Sorry, I play pretty sporadically. Off and on, with a few months in between so I tend to miss some less obvious changes.