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Worst class.... WH

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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Twohandernoob
Posts: 198

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#61 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:05 pm

Aurandilaz wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:30 pm I'd maybe prefer seeing the career mechanic of 5 stacks, each stack increasing crit modifier by 15% or so, up to a maximum of +75% (base is 1.5crit modifier with 5 variance, so up to 2.25).
Why - it's a light armor melee class and is actually supposed to achieve gank burst and nuke 1-2 target at a time before getting swarmed to death. Sorc/BW mechanic is similar in crit increasing + modifier, except they get to do it from range and 1-2 HoT is often enough to take care of the downside. And all 4 are equally low on armor/toughness.
But because everything needs a downside, have dmg taken increase by 5% for each mechanic point up, up to 25% more dmg taken (or maybe that and chance to be crit also rising by 5 per mechanic point, so even more punishing - against which you can manage somewhat with above average initiative stacking options etc). So you have to balance between going high for crits and burst, or taking too much dmg and using finishers as soon as 2-3 points are able to be spent.

Get rid of the one tactic that is semi-forced into any functional spec that doesnt involve going full ripostetard and maximizing parry to the win as enemies kill themselves.
New decade, new builds - without all requiring that one damned tactic if you actually want to do dps?
This is a rather good idea

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#62 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:54 pm

I think WH/WE is way too niche right now. It is good at one or two tasks, it means they are good in certain SCs and not others. While they do fine in WBs, the role again is often high risk/low reward (essentially sneaking into keeps during sieges, etc).

havartii
Posts: 423

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#63 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:17 am

I heal wh last, they can die for all I care, unless 2 . heals don't die, they hit tanks and are all around bad and selfish players. Exeptions in high tier.. still will heal good classes over them.
Order: 70 AM / 76 RP/ 72 Knight/ 58 WH
Destro: 82 Sham / 79 Zealot/ 70 DoK /70 Magus /68 Mara
Many alts on both sides now ruined by new currency change

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Maroe337
Posts: 20

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#64 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:28 am

Destro Mdps class
・Chopper - High sustain single and AoE dps, restrictive squishy
・Mara - Normal sustain single dps, alot of debuffs, relatively tanky
・WE - High single burst dps, stealth, squishy
・MSH - Normal sustain AoE dps, high mobility, tanky
-Destro classes are very unique

Order class
・Slayer - High sustain single and AoE dps, restrictive squishy
・WL - High single burst dps, high mobility, relatively tanky
・WH - High single burst dps, stealth, squishy
・ASW - High single burst dps, high mobility, relatively tanky
-Order classes are overlap role, Its the problem.

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Gunlinger
Posts: 63

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#65 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:34 pm

havartii wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:17 am I heal wh last, they can die for all I care, unless 2 . heals don't die, they hit tanks and are all around bad and selfish players. Exeptions in high tier.. still will heal good classes over them.
And there it is. The main Problem! YOU have no idea how a class works in it's actuall state on this server build. And still you try to act like you would do.
A Witchhunter on this server Build has been left behind by changes on his former main targets. WH's are ''here'' no longer suitable to sneak to the backline and take out
healers and casters.
A WH will not be able to kill any Healer inside a group that mannages to set his detaunt. The Healer's detaunt will last almost as long as its CD. And for the extream small time the detaunt runns out, the WH gets
CCed. Not that a WH would survive long enough in the backline of the enemy while attacking theire Healer with his lack of real burst dps.

There was once a Class called the Witch Hunter. It was brought in the Game as a Class that had to make great sacrifices in exchange for great power.
The WH(Witch too) as it was once made had to agree to the DEAL by choosing its Class. the ''Pro-Con Ratio''
- Wearing Rags while operating mostly without any support at the Frontline or even deeper right inside the enemy backline aoe bombable classes. BUT in exchange carrying the widest toolset of CC abillitys on
one Class and being able to TOTALY take out (1) ONE enemy of its abillity to make any move or cast while its life was set ablaze.
- Being able to dimish in the shadows for 30 sec on a 30 sec CD. IF the Cast was not stopped by the slightest incomming hit/dot or the chadow of a bird named rng falling down on him. BUT in exchange being able
to sneak around entire enemy Warbands, without beeing spottet by any class that has not stacked TONNS of INITIATIVE, what once would have ment to loose TONNS of DPS or HPS.(Only Tanks where able to spot
a well geared WH once)
- Being able to smash the Face of ANY other Meele Class in a straight 1vs1 situation that is started out of stealth with opener. But getting kited to oblivion by range classes like a SH.
- Dealing the highest possible DPS of ALL Order Classes in RvR and PvE. PERIOD! But having the weakest armor and HP pool in exchange.

THIS DEAL. This terms of agreement in terms to kill and get killed endless times again, and again, and agaim...was broken LONG AGO.

First part of that deal was broken back on live.
- In order to work around the problem of Bomb-Zerg-CC-AOE-WB's in LIVE, they introduced CC immunitys. That ment that the WH/WE class lost its 100% unique abillity so have KNOCKDOWN, SILENCE, DISARM, HEALDEBUFF and SNARE in ONE class. Beeing able to apply a knockdown on a healer, then silence him. And if that would not be enough time to kill him, keep his heal casts at low.
BUT the Immunitytimers prevented all this then. IT BROKE the utillity of ONE Class in order to get rid of a problem other classes created.

- Then came the Introduction of the Souv Def Sets and boosted the Defences of almost all classes. But the Sets where the SAME on all Meele/Cast/Heal/Tank classes. They had the same boost.
But that was a thing that let out WH. Everyone had suddenly ridiculess ammounts of HP and regen. But the WH did not got a slightly higher dps boost. All the Targets of the WH got more and more health, deff and selfheal. But the DPS output of the WH was litteraly the same as before. It was a BUFF for all Classes that had good DEFF before. So it became a Nerf for the one Class that was always just pure ATTACK.

Second part of that deal broke here.
- WH is no longer the Class with the highest single DPS output. All the middle armor DPS classes now deal the same or even higher base DPS. That was archived by giving them all pure DPS sets and some small
buffs. But all WH sets after Vanq, exept vor Onslaught are WHY EVER made to be DEFF. The ridiculess Set Boni on WH Bloodlord, are direkly taken from a former IB set. There was not even enough effort made,
to take out the ''BLOCK'' on the 7th pice proc.
- Stealth is almost killed. It is to easy now for almost everyone to gather tonns of Initiative without loosing TONS of mainstats. But WH sets have absolute LOW Initiative on it's Sets. Once WH sets provided
enough Initiative that NO WH had to skill it via RR, because it already was above 400.
- In Stealth WH's are NOT ABLE ANYMORE to OPEN DOORS. Sounds not so important? Then try to get in some BO's in RvR while in Stealth trying to get way from a whole WB of enemys.
- Stealth no longer brakes NPC agroo exept from PVE Bossfights. Sounds not so important? RvR MAGUS AND SQUIG PETS NO LONGER LOOSE TARGET ON WH GOING INTO STEALTH!



So lets come back to your problem of WHs attacking Tanks. HERE a WH will not be able to kill a average HEALER. WH DPS is corporal with a minimal ammount of spirit. And he does that while going around armor. As a WH you can brake your fingers on the keybord, trying to kill a Healer with Guard or Crossheal.
But as a WH you can definatly KILL a Tank. Even if he gets heal or crossguard.
Your WH attacks a Tank instead of anything else? Maybe he just sees what you not see. As long as there is Guard on the enemys DPS and Heal, the enemy Group will stand. But with a Guardtank down or at least
out of all his big CD deff abillitys, by one WH. That will make a group fall.
And they are not attacking the damm Tanks because they are stupid. They do it because the System forces them. A WH does more Dmg on a damm Tank then on a Healer.

This will go on untill WH has the abillity to kill healers again. A Detaunt braker or so.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#66 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:19 pm

This is wrong on so many levels, it is baffling.

You are wondering, why an unguarded tank gets more damage from behind than a guarded healer?
Dying is no option.

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Gunlinger
Posts: 63

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#67 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:42 pm

Sulorie wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:19 pm This is wrong on so many levels, it is baffling.

You are wondering, why an unguarded tank gets more damage from behind than a guarded healer?
Double wrong. Neither i am wondering nor did i wrote it the way you seem to reed it.

''Even if he gets heal or crossguard.''

What i wrote is that it is more easy as a WH to kill a Tank then a Healer. Even a crossguarded Tank just means that the WH just does DMG on 2 Tanks.

But this is not the Point at all. It is about the Fact, that WH got stripped and betrayed about his Strongpoints he once had in trade fpr his Weakpoints. Now his Weakpoints dominate and force WH players to
adapt in a way that is not contributing to the greater cause anymore. Right now WH, if he want to deal at least average dmg compared to other dps classes, need min RR rank 70 and pump 12 Points into his
Aoe Path just for ONE Taktik. Waisting them and not being able to skill incoming healdebuff from middle path.
Sure we WH could go without BB. Or go for other Builds to build more pressure on Casters. But that would just mean we die to other meele classes even faster. As a WH you not survive by defense. You survive
by killing your opponent before he kills you. Getting away after a kill is a Bonus, not a focused goal.
And a 1vs1 fight against a healer is over right in the moment he puts a WH in stagger and heals back to 100%. But not enough with that. Once chaising a healer over 2 Zones was a common thing.
But at the actuall stand now, the healer gets a bit disstance and suddenly just casts down the wh. The Hunter got ripped of its Weapons. And the Pray got bound Razorblades to its claws.

Adler
Posts: 2

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#68 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:04 am

Gunlinger wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:34 pm
havartii wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:17 am I heal wh last, they can die for all I care, unless 2 . heals don't die, they hit tanks and are all around bad and selfish players. Exeptions in high tier.. still will heal good classes over them.
And there it is. The main Problem! YOU have no idea how a class works in it's actuall state on this server build. And still you try to act like you would do.
A Witchhunter on this server Build has been left behind by changes on his former main targets. WH's are ''here'' no longer suitable to sneak to the backline and take out
healers and casters.
A WH will not be able to kill any Healer inside a group that mannages to set his detaunt. The Healer's detaunt will last almost as long as its CD. And for the extream small time the detaunt runns out, the WH gets
CCed. Not that a WH would survive long enough in the backline of the enemy while attacking theire Healer with his lack of real burst dps.

There was once a Class called the Witch Hunter. It was brought in the Game as a Class that had to make great sacrifices in exchange for great power.
The WH(Witch too) as it was once made had to agree to the DEAL by choosing its Class. the ''Pro-Con Ratio''
- Wearing Rags while operating mostly without any support at the Frontline or even deeper right inside the enemy backline aoe bombable classes. BUT in exchange carrying the widest toolset of CC abillitys on
one Class and being able to TOTALY take out (1) ONE enemy of its abillity to make any move or cast while its life was set ablaze.
- Being able to dimish in the shadows for 30 sec on a 30 sec CD. IF the Cast was not stopped by the slightest incomming hit/dot or the chadow of a bird named rng falling down on him. BUT in exchange being able
to sneak around entire enemy Warbands, without beeing spottet by any class that has not stacked TONNS of INITIATIVE, what once would have ment to loose TONNS of DPS or HPS.(Only Tanks where able to spot
a well geared WH once)
- Being able to smash the Face of ANY other Meele Class in a straight 1vs1 situation that is started out of stealth with opener. But getting kited to oblivion by range classes like a SH.
- Dealing the highest possible DPS of ALL Order Classes in RvR and PvE. PERIOD! But having the weakest armor and HP pool in exchange.

THIS DEAL. This terms of agreement in terms to kill and get killed endless times again, and again, and agaim...was broken LONG AGO.

First part of that deal was broken back on live.
- In order to work around the problem of Bomb-Zerg-CC-AOE-WB's in LIVE, they introduced CC immunitys. That ment that the WH/WE class lost its 100% unique abillity so have KNOCKDOWN, SILENCE, DISARM, HEALDEBUFF and SNARE in ONE class. Beeing able to apply a knockdown on a healer, then silence him. And if that would not be enough time to kill him, keep his heal casts at low.
BUT the Immunitytimers prevented all this then. IT BROKE the utillity of ONE Class in order to get rid of a problem other classes created.

- Then came the Introduction of the Souv Def Sets and boosted the Defences of almost all classes. But the Sets where the SAME on all Meele/Cast/Heal/Tank classes. They had the same boost.
But that was a thing that let out WH. Everyone had suddenly ridiculess ammounts of HP and regen. But the WH did not got a slightly higher dps boost. All the Targets of the WH got more and more health, deff and selfheal. But the DPS output of the WH was litteraly the same as before. It was a BUFF for all Classes that had good DEFF before. So it became a Nerf for the one Class that was always just pure ATTACK.

Second part of that deal broke here.
- WH is no longer the Class with the highest single DPS output. All the middle armor DPS classes now deal the same or even higher base DPS. That was archived by giving them all pure DPS sets and some small
buffs. But all WH sets after Vanq, exept vor Onslaught are WHY EVER made to be DEFF. The ridiculess Set Boni on WH Bloodlord, are direkly taken from a former IB set. There was not even enough effort made,
to take out the ''BLOCK'' on the 7th pice proc.
- Stealth is almost killed. It is to easy now for almost everyone to gather tonns of Initiative without loosing TONS of mainstats. But WH sets have absolute LOW Initiative on it's Sets. Once WH sets provided
enough Initiative that NO WH had to skill it via RR, because it already was above 400.
- In Stealth WH's are NOT ABLE ANYMORE to OPEN DOORS. Sounds not so important? Then try to get in some BO's in RvR while in Stealth trying to get way from a whole WB of enemys.
- Stealth no longer brakes NPC agroo exept from PVE Bossfights. Sounds not so important? RvR MAGUS AND SQUIG PETS NO LONGER LOOSE TARGET ON WH GOING INTO STEALTH!



So lets come back to your problem of WHs attacking Tanks. HERE a WH will not be able to kill a average HEALER. WH DPS is corporal with a minimal ammount of spirit. And he does that while going around armor. As a WH you can brake your fingers on the keybord, trying to kill a Healer with Guard or Crossheal.
But as a WH you can definatly KILL a Tank. Even if he gets heal or crossguard.
Your WH attacks a Tank instead of anything else? Maybe he just sees what you not see. As long as there is Guard on the enemys DPS and Heal, the enemy Group will stand. But with a Guardtank down or at least
out of all his big CD deff abillitys, by one WH. That will make a group fall.
And they are not attacking the damm Tanks because they are stupid. They do it because the System forces them. A WH does more Dmg on a damm Tank then on a Healer.

This will go on untill WH has the abillity to kill healers again. A Detaunt braker or so.
!

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Xergon
Posts: 798

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#69 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:52 am

Gunlinger wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:34 pm
Spoiler:
havartii wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:17 am I heal wh last, they can die for all I care, unless 2 . heals don't die, they hit tanks and are all around bad and selfish players. Exeptions in high tier.. still will heal good classes over them.
And there it is. The main Problem! YOU have no idea how a class works in it's actuall state on this server build. And still you try to act like you would do.
A Witchhunter on this server Build has been left behind by changes on his former main targets. WH's are ''here'' no longer suitable to sneak to the backline and take out
healers and casters.
A WH will not be able to kill any Healer inside a group that mannages to set his detaunt. The Healer's detaunt will last almost as long as its CD. And for the extream small time the detaunt runns out, the WH gets
CCed. Not that a WH would survive long enough in the backline of the enemy while attacking theire Healer with his lack of real burst dps.

There was once a Class called the Witch Hunter. It was brought in the Game as a Class that had to make great sacrifices in exchange for great power.
The WH(Witch too) as it was once made had to agree to the DEAL by choosing its Class. the ''Pro-Con Ratio''
- Wearing Rags while operating mostly without any support at the Frontline or even deeper right inside the enemy backline aoe bombable classes. BUT in exchange carrying the widest toolset of CC abillitys on
one Class and being able to TOTALY take out (1) ONE enemy of its abillity to make any move or cast while its life was set ablaze.
- Being able to dimish in the shadows for 30 sec on a 30 sec CD. IF the Cast was not stopped by the slightest incomming hit/dot or the chadow of a bird named rng falling down on him. BUT in exchange being able
to sneak around entire enemy Warbands, without beeing spottet by any class that has not stacked TONNS of INITIATIVE, what once would have ment to loose TONNS of DPS or HPS.(Only Tanks where able to spot
a well geared WH once)
- Being able to smash the Face of ANY other Meele Class in a straight 1vs1 situation that is started out of stealth with opener. But getting kited to oblivion by range classes like a SH.
- Dealing the highest possible DPS of ALL Order Classes in RvR and PvE. PERIOD! But having the weakest armor and HP pool in exchange.

THIS DEAL. This terms of agreement in terms to kill and get killed endless times again, and again, and agaim...was broken LONG AGO.

First part of that deal was broken back on live.
- In order to work around the problem of Bomb-Zerg-CC-AOE-WB's in LIVE, they introduced CC immunitys. That ment that the WH/WE class lost its 100% unique abillity so have KNOCKDOWN, SILENCE, DISARM, HEALDEBUFF and SNARE in ONE class. Beeing able to apply a knockdown on a healer, then silence him. And if that would not be enough time to kill him, keep his heal casts at low.
BUT the Immunitytimers prevented all this then. IT BROKE the utillity of ONE Class in order to get rid of a problem other classes created.

- Then came the Introduction of the Souv Def Sets and boosted the Defences of almost all classes. But the Sets where the SAME on all Meele/Cast/Heal/Tank classes. They had the same boost.
But that was a thing that let out WH. Everyone had suddenly ridiculess ammounts of HP and regen. But the WH did not got a slightly higher dps boost. All the Targets of the WH got more and more health, deff and selfheal. But the DPS output of the WH was litteraly the same as before. It was a BUFF for all Classes that had good DEFF before. So it became a Nerf for the one Class that was always just pure ATTACK.

Second part of that deal broke here.
- WH is no longer the Class with the highest single DPS output. All the middle armor DPS classes now deal the same or even higher base DPS. That was archived by giving them all pure DPS sets and some small
buffs. But all WH sets after Vanq, exept vor Onslaught are WHY EVER made to be DEFF. The ridiculess Set Boni on WH Bloodlord, are direkly taken from a former IB set. There was not even enough effort made,
to take out the ''BLOCK'' on the 7th pice proc.
- Stealth is almost killed. It is to easy now for almost everyone to gather tonns of Initiative without loosing TONS of mainstats. But WH sets have absolute LOW Initiative on it's Sets. Once WH sets provided
enough Initiative that NO WH had to skill it via RR, because it already was above 400.
- In Stealth WH's are NOT ABLE ANYMORE to OPEN DOORS. Sounds not so important? Then try to get in some BO's in RvR while in Stealth trying to get way from a whole WB of enemys.
- Stealth no longer brakes NPC agroo exept from PVE Bossfights. Sounds not so important? RvR MAGUS AND SQUIG PETS NO LONGER LOOSE TARGET ON WH GOING INTO STEALTH!


So lets come back to your problem of WHs attacking Tanks. HERE a WH will not be able to kill a average HEALER. WH DPS is corporal with a minimal ammount of spirit. And he does that while going around armor. As a WH you can brake your fingers on the keybord, trying to kill a Healer with Guard or Crossheal.
But as a WH you can definatly KILL a Tank. Even if he gets heal or crossguard.
Your WH attacks a Tank instead of anything else? Maybe he just sees what you not see. As long as there is Guard on the enemys DPS and Heal, the enemy Group will stand. But with a Guardtank down or at least
out of all his big CD deff abillitys, by one WH. That will make a group fall.
And they are not attacking the damm Tanks because they are stupid. They do it because the System forces them. A WH does more Dmg on a damm Tank then on a Healer.

This will go on untill WH has the abillity to kill healers again. A Detaunt braker or so.

Duel my Chosen, if u kill it, i pay u 100$, bah i even pay u if u get me to 50% before u die, or i force u to run away...
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bossabe
Posts: 51

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#70 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:47 pm

P.S. can we give them perma Stealth ( no 30's timer) until they break outta it ?

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