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[WH]: is crit pointless?

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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aylictal
Posts: 11

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#11 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:14 am

ok i guess asking community is pointless...

no where in this thread did i say i should solo a healer.

no where in this thread did i say that i wasn't grouped on this guy who ignored my damage and **** killed me with a white lion and a runepriest on him as well.

no where in this thread did i not say i hit the guy with a 75% heal debuff. ITS IN THE SCREENSHOT THAT HE WAS 75% HEAL DEBUFFED IF YOU LOOKED AT THE BULLETS AND ABILITIES I WAS HITTING HIM WITH. jesus h christ this community is dire.

all i asked was how to crit someone like this, because obviously its not **** possible on a witch hunter.

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Zxul
Posts: 1359

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#12 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:16 am

Looking at your screenshot again- looks like sham with high toughness+high anticrit build, which probably aoe detaunted as well. Not an wh expert, but looking at abilities your best bet vs this build would probably be aa haste+Vindication.

As for crit, anticrit build is pretty much specifically tailored to counter a wh glass cannon crit build, so don't expect crit build to really work vs those.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#13 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:00 am

aylictal wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:14 am ok i guess asking community is pointless...

no where in this thread did i say i should solo a healer.

no where in this thread did i say that i wasn't grouped on this guy who ignored my damage and **** killed me with a white lion and a runepriest on him as well.

no where in this thread did i not say i hit the guy with a 75% heal debuff. ITS IN THE SCREENSHOT THAT HE WAS 75% HEAL DEBUFFED IF YOU LOOKED AT THE BULLETS AND ABILITIES I WAS HITTING HIM WITH. jesus h christ this community is dire.

all i asked was how to crit someone like this, because obviously its not **** possible on a witch hunter.
I am sorry, that I didn't read any links on my phone, when I made the post yesterday.
Some comments I have to make: You should turn on time stamps for chat and especially combat log.
The screenshot has really crap resolution, it's hard to read.
Turning on all hits will show enemy healing as well and potions being used.
Not all hits of you can crit, so no crits in this time frame is unlikely but possible.
I am wondering how you died with a runepriest nearby, who can even cleanse dots on you.

Btw, you was running at least 4 sec with Gork Sez Stop on you. You should listen to Gork.
Dying is no option.

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Ysaran
Posts: 1220

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#14 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:33 am

aylictal wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:25 pm Theres a lot of assumptions being thrown out here.

A) I wasn't alone I was in a group when this happened.

B) I hit this guy 35 times with 25% crit chance and not a single crit. The shear odds of that occurring is mind boggling but this ISNT happening irregularly, in fact it happens QUITE OFTEN.

C) The shaman in question was ALONE and still managed to kill me with a team and got away lol.

I'm looking for an effective way to deal damage as a witch hunter and crit clearly doesn't seem the right route.
1)
did you had a guard? there were dps/tank assisting you? there were healers focussing on you? no? then you were alone. if you join pug wb you are alone. it doesn't matter if around you there are planty of ppl, you are alone unless you are coordinating and focussing on the same target.
2) as stated by Sulorie you are not intended to solo a healer, specially if this healer is Relife, a high rr and fully geared shaman.
3) everyone take at least 3 step of futile strike (-15% chances to be critted) and with the gear you easilly reach a -20% chance to be critted so you dont realy have 20% chance to crit but much more less
4) you were prolly detauted (by both ability and shaman's tactic) or challenged and he was prolly guarded (becuse coordinated ppl are used to guard healer when focussed)
5) you were using no potions
6) you didn't noticed Gork Sez Stop (which is prolly what killed you)

all melee dps work the same way: cap the strenght (1050) and the max out your crit chance. will you kill something this way? absolutelly not, unless you get organized.
the only way to be effective is to get organized, no amount of rr or gear will compensate.
And watch your debuff, Gork Sez stop is a really nasty thing.
if you have any question on how to improve your game feel free to whisp me
Zputadenti

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popperz
Posts: 62

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#15 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:52 am

Indeed for some reason nobody reads what the guy asks and try to teach him how to play.

To answer your question:
It is still worth it. I am rr84 WH and my crit in char window is 23%. I have full vanq and don't have sovereign or onslaught.
You should use enemy combat log parser to make decisions in your spec. According to my parser my average crit rate is 35% (with 10M+ dmg pull of data in rvr and sc's).
Many people still have positive chance to be crit.

I tried running low crit builds or builds without 50% crit dmg. It is possible to be competitive without the crit dmg tactic (because other good tactic exist), however, reducing crit (not going full opportunist) dramatically lowers your potential in sc's or 1vsX encounters. It worked well only 1v1. With low crit your dmg/sec becomes constant without spikes, which makes it easy to heal/predict.

To summarize: The defense in this game is a lot cheaper than offense, so you will not be able to kill healer with full futile strikes. Only the bad ones.
The sovereign set offers a proc with +crit. Also, crit is present on cloak, ring = so may be it will be a little bit better. But in any case (in my opinion) it's not possible to damp crit for WH. The class is not shining already, but without crit it's dead.
Feelings, WH
Reality, WP
Existence, BG
Emotions, DoK

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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#16 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:02 am

Lots of people shouting L2P when this guy is asking about crit chance vs reduction.

If a healer decides to go full anti-crit (very common to try and survive against melee) then it is possible to completely negate your 20-25% (he might've cleansed the bullets off) crit chance through high initiative, renown and gear. He was running the counter to your spec, hence why you would rarely crit (if at all).

I'm not completely specced for anti-crit (just mostly!) and this is what I come out at after personal buffs, potions, etc.

Initiative: 339. This puts my base chance to be crit at 10.32%.
Renown: Futile Strikes 4 which reduces my chance to be crit by 24%, now putting me at -13.68%
Gear: -1% (this is low!!!!!) = -14.68% to be crit
Liniment: -5% = -19.68% to be crit.

Obtaining another 6% from gear is trivial if I swapped around some jewelery which would result in over 25% crit chance reduction which negates all of your critical hit chance.

If you really want a crit build then you will need better gear and more renown and even then you're also relying on buffs to your own crit chance and debuffs to the enemy's chance to be crit to really make an impact. Sentinel jewel with the right talisman gives you 4% crit and maxing out Oppotunist (renown) gives 14%. That's 18% right there alone. Add in 11-13% from gear (2% from each weapon, 5% set bonus, 2%-4% from armour pieces) and it's at 29% - 31%. The potion "Liniment of War: Genius" adds another 5% (I assume it stacks with tactics) so that's now 34%-36% before tactics, buffs and debuffs.

Your tactic puts you at 39%-41%. A KOTBS using Overpowering Swing adds another 10%. If you really want to crit then you can add an extra 25% crit chance to absolution (now up to 74%-76%).

etc. In order to run crit builds - and counter anti-crit builds - you need good gear, good renown and good group buffs / debuffs. If you're not able to provide that then for now just focus on maxing out raw damage via strength and weapon skill and leave the crit build for later.
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Twohandernoob
Posts: 198

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#17 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:18 am

aylictal wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:14 am ok i guess asking community is pointless...

no where in this thread did i say i should solo a healer.

no where in this thread did i say that i wasn't grouped on this guy who ignored my damage and **** killed me with a white lion and a runepriest on him as well.

no where in this thread did i not say i hit the guy with a 75% heal debuff. ITS IN THE SCREENSHOT THAT HE WAS 75% HEAL DEBUFFED IF YOU LOOKED AT THE BULLETS AND ABILITIES I WAS HITTING HIM WITH. jesus h christ this community is dire.

all i asked was how to crit someone like this, because obviously its not **** possible on a witch hunter.
You're not chill enough to succeed on WH brah. Have u considered a slayer/chopper, or even a futile strikes/armour tali shammy? Hope that helps!

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Vayra
Posts: 577

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#18 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:03 am

Aerogath wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:30 pm People have either on gear or renown "reduced chance to be critically hit" if you have 25% and the enemy has "10% reduced chance to be critically hit" its lowers your chance to 15%
That's not entirely correct in most situations. Your actual chance to crit (assuming equal level) is your chance to crit + their chance to be crit. Pretty much only tanks get their chance to be crit down to 0% or less. So in most cases you chance to crit is 5-20% higher than what your character says (initiative debuffs can make it way higher). So if you have 25% chance to crit, and a Shaman has -10% chance to be crit on their gear, their total chance to be crit is still in the 0-10% range most of the time, which leads to a crit rate of 25-35% depending on their exact initiative.
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AxelF
Posts: 219

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#19 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:16 am

Vayra wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:03 am
Pretty much only people who know what they're doing get their chance to be crit down to 0% or less.

aylictal
Posts: 11

Re: [WH]: is crit pointless?

Post#20 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:29 pm

i came back to the thread to see if any others would actually answer my question and a few actually did (kudos to those!), while others continued telling me how i need guard, how i need to stop when gork says stop on me, or how i need a specific knight or ib or whatever which is hilarious.

i was grouped, with a runepriest and a white lion, and they weren't puggers, they were friends.

the shaman in question is high rank, theres no way hes not given a string of 35 consecutive attacks not a single one critting on 25%.

as others pointed out, the post was merely me asking whether or not crit was viable.

i don't think it is and i'm looking for solutions to be able to do some damage as a dps class because thats what a witch hunter is (or at least, i thought) given that i've used nearly every single point of my own RR into opportunist and as well as a tactic slot that is both being fully negated.

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