[SW] General Guide

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dansari
Posts: 2475

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#41 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:20 pm

szejoza wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am
Thanks for info Dansari, I'll try not being bad with my SW :D
You're quite welcome. And don't worry if you're bad you'll be just like fenryl 8-)
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Mystriss
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Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#42 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:48 pm

szejoza wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am
Thanks for info Dansari, I'll try not being bad with my SW :D
Pfft in the long run it's far more important that you're enjoying playing it how you build it, and unlike other classes, you can totally build a SW to fit your play style, whatever that is. :)

<Rest removed - this is not my guide, it's not my thread, and not my place to offer conflicting advice>
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szejoza
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Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#43 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:36 pm

thanks again, will take a look but seems like a long read :D
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michela89
Posts: 144

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#44 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:26 pm

while swapping stance is not debatable, it's simply something that has to be done...but luckily it is a bit easier than it is.

Like in an Assault/skirmish Build (but even Skirmish/assault), you can really dump Scout stance completely and not feel bad about it. Not even if u plan to play as a top of the line SW.

the range is soooooo situational it's not worth binding it, even more so scout stance in those builds has absolutely no skill u need that u can't use in Skirmish/Assault.
The only one is the ranged Silence, but you are never gonna use that instead of the KD or even Disarm, so again it is just a very situational third CC in your arsenal.

I am not sure I would bother using Scout Stance even if I had 3 hands





btw I wanted to ask: How do you guys do 1v1 against witch elves? I dust off my little SW sometimes for some roaming here and there, but WE can burst me to death in their stun window, or basically leave me so low after it wears off I can barely do anything at all.
Am I just too "light" geared? 6k hp, crap tier tough(instinctive aim), good armor (+talis) but it's worthless against WEs.
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Manatikik
Posts: 816

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#45 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:45 pm

dansari wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:20 pm
szejoza wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am
Thanks for info Dansari, I'll try not being bad with my SW :D
You're quite welcome. And don't worry if you're bad you'll be just like fenryl 8-)

****, he'd have to try real hard to be as bad as I am.

Spoiler:
Mystriss wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:48 pm
szejoza wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am
Thanks for info Dansari, I'll try not being bad with my SW :D
Pfft in the long run it's far more important that you're enjoying playing it how you build it, and unlike other classes, you can totally build a SW to fit your play style, whatever that is. :)

I'll slightly disagree with my fellow Sexy Boots [SW] regarding stance dancing; if you want to get the most out of the class you need to trip-dance and get access to /all/ the abilities. Even if you're rocking a full scout you need the defense of Assault stance and the slows from Skirmish, even if you play assault you're going to want that range and increased BAL damage from scout and the further mobility of skirmish, etc. You'll almost /always/ be a lot better off if you trip-dance. (The only real exception is if you have poor memory for what abilities are in which stances and such. Then I'd stick to a range oriented build and learn to kite - Skirmish is good for that, but Scout isn't as far behind for mobility as you might think ;) )

I did a lot of work with the Sexy Boots in live and I think I've probably run every stance combination possible, so I wanted to give my personal insight on LA. For the record I've not gotten LA yet in RoR so take this with a grain of salt, but I used it extensively in live, and no, I do not think the changes RoR has made will make that much difference to laying waste with LA spam; however, gear might. My healer buddies couldn't keep me up as a front lines bomber/zerg buster until I got into partial Sov., which I don't know if they're even going to put that in RoR.

That said, my husband has always ran a full skirmish split arrow build (in live from 2008-2012ish, and currently here in RoR) and I think it is a better choice for "all around play" in RoR here. I mean if you're running with a regular group or warband and your /job/ is throwing mass deeps into the zerg's front lines, then LA /is/ defiantly the tool you want, but if you're just running around in PuGs WBs, running solo, or doing SC's, then split arrows is IMO going to be more effective, even at disrupting the zerg. Zerg's on RoR are a lot more organized than on live, they'll fold much quicker if you get into their healers vs if you're just laying into their tanks. Most of the zerg's I fought in live were comprised of players who were self-preservationists, so when I'd start throwing mass deeps into the tanks they'd run screaming. RoR is a completely different animal from live; less self-preservationist, more "group orientated," so I think ranged AoE in the back lines is going to work better as a whole and certainly it's more adaptable for SC's and solo situations. You cannot kite with LA, it's a frontal cone so you gotta be running straight into them - if you're lucky enough to have a suicide squad playing ambush into the backlines, sure, but most groups/other players aren't going to "build around that" unless you're their leader so I wouldn't count on it. (Though... if you're interested in something nutz like that, my husband and I are crazy like that too ;) )


Feel free to check out my YouTube Channel Sexy Boots Rule I've got something like 70 videos in different builds and play styles. (Just keep in mind those are all from live, span from RR30ish through 80something, from 2008 through 2013ish, and live patch 1.3.2 through 1.4.4 - which is completely different from RoR. I unfortunately haven't had time to finalize and post any videos for RoR quite yet, just got into T4 a couple weeks ago.) See also my outdated Guide to Sexy Boots https://sites.google.com/site/wwwdwooid ... w-warriors the general principles are the same, even if some of the abilities have changed. (I'd send you to my SW website for all of that stuff and more, plus RoR guides, but I'm updating the site so a bunch of my stuff isn't online atm.)

Triple Stance Dancing is, currently, quite literally a waste of time and will make you more ineffective than other SW's. At the end of the summer multiple changes were made that made it obsolete and a worse way to play (most notably DoT changes and making Eye Shot 13 point ability in Skirmisher); it used to be the best way to play and you could easily tell people who were great at it, like Zeromanceer, from those who were not. I could go more into detail if you'd like about every little thing that makes it sub-par compared to how it used to be on RoR and Live or you can take my word for it and not go through the pain.

Currently you either are the secondary DPS as Skirmisher with HD and RKD with sustain damage and small burst potential with Glass Arrow + Flanking Shot OR you are Assault Melee Spec where you can deliver hard hitting burst damage and double initiative debuff to become good. In WB setting you can do as Dan said and be a LA bot with some debuff spamming and be the most effective (or if its NA time you can be a double ini debuff bot that helps go for specific targets like Chop :D ). If you're justbeing a pugger then anything can work (I can use any build on my SW and go in pug sc's and top dps/db's consistently because PUG's are that, pugs which are super easy to exploit and win). Split Arrow was a good build on Live until you hit T4 and could get LA; using it after that is honestly just playing badly no matter how you look at it.

Sexyboots was a good resource for Live for sure, but everything about it is completely outdated at this point and cannot relate to RoR at all honestly; because too much core of the game has changed and the type of playerbase has changed too drastically to make any of it relatable at this point.

michela89 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:26 pm
while swapping stance is not debatable, it's simply something that has to be done...but luckily it is a bit easier than it is.

Like in an Assault/skirmish Build (but even Skirmish/assault), you can really dump Scout stance completely and not feel bad about it. Not even if u plan to play as a top of the line SW.

the range is soooooo situational it's not worth binding it, even more so scout stance in those builds has absolutely no skill u need that u can't use in Skirmish/Assault.
The only one is the ranged Silence, but you are never gonna use that instead of the KD or even Disarm, so again it is just a very situational third CC in your arsenal.

I am not sure I would bother using Scout Stance even if I had 3 hands





btw I wanted to ask: How do you guys do 1v1 against witch elves? I dust off my little SW sometimes for some roaming here and there, but WE can burst me to death in their stun window, or basically leave me so low after it wears off I can barely do anything at all.
Am I just too "light" geared? 6k hp, crap tier tough(instinctive aim), good armor (+talis) but it's worthless against WEs.

WE's are easy to take on 1v1 (unless its one of the top solo'ers on the server) you just need to do the same thing and be a little on your toes and you'll win 90% of your fights more than likely. So when they open on you: if they KD to open you need to HP Pot > VoN > Exploit Weakness > Grim Slash > BA > Grim Slash and they should be dead at this point (maybe one more Grim Slash if you don't have BiS gear or they get double pot off); if they don't open with KD then you need to: VoN > Exploit Weakness > Grim Slash > BA > Grim Slash and double/single pot in between when you need to. If they are running a riposte build you will definitely need to double pot and use Whirling Pin to get some distance if they get a lucky few parries on your EW or BA and from there just Shadow Sting and SFA until they close enough for more Grim Slash and BA's. Hope that helps! ~ Also I don't run any armor talis and just go glass cannon as a solo'r because no amount of toughness you stack (unless you run a 3/3 Conq/Dom w/o instinctive aim and with skirmish + toughness pot) can you reach any meaningful toughness to make it matter at all; plus most WE's have enough armor pen + Agonizing Wound to ignore your armor and Mara/bg/bo have enough armor debuffs to make it a moot point IMO (for soloing).
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michela89
Posts: 144

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#46 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:07 pm

So it's a blast them before they blast you kind of situation.
I was not prepared with healing potion I must say, back when I played on live I don't remember them being so needed (quite sure you couldn't even buy them with Currency actually).
Need to adapt to the times.



armor talis help me a lot in pug scenarios tho, I can't rely on Guard in pugs and I just play assault. Image
Makes me survive quite a bit against most meleers in scs.

it's just the SORCS that literally melt me as an ice cream on a summer afternoon, I have the habit to just detaunt them as soon as I notice them around even if they are not hitting me in that moment, that's how much worried I am about them. My res/Initiative is quite low.
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dansari
Posts: 2475

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#47 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:11 pm

Max dodge disrupt. Futile Strikes after if you're getting blown up too fast. Trash pots (crafted 1500hp) are also cheap and easy to come by. You definitely shouldn't play without at least those. Some sorcs are just NB computers though so you'll have a hard time with them regardless
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Manatikik
Posts: 816

Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#48 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:04 pm

michela89 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:07 pm
So it's a blast them before they blast you kind of situation.
I was not prepared with healing potion I must say, back when I played on live I don't remember them being so needed (quite sure you couldn't even buy them with Currency actually).
Need to adapt to the times.



armor talis help me a lot in pug scenarios tho, I can't rely on Guard in pugs and I just play assault. Image
Makes me survive quite a bit against most meleers in scs.

it's just the SORCS that literally melt me as an ice cream on a summer afternoon, I have the habit to just detaunt them as soon as I notice them around even if they are not hitting me in that moment, that's how much worried I am about them. My res/Initiative is quite low.


Just make sure your buffhead has the basic Sorc rotation on it and detaunt once you get it on you; it takes some practice but you'll start doing it just as a reaction and you'll get better at knowing which one it is on you. You can and should also set up a chat macro that says: Sorc rotation burst inc on me - or whatever you want so an alert healer or tank can help mitigate the burst if you're pugging (also helps with Mara pulls as well); and if you're in voip with group always say it even if you don't think it will do much.

As Dan said having double (at least) 1500 pots is a must and super cheap and easy to maintain. Popping one in conjunction with detaunt is also a sure fire way for a Sorc to never be able to kill you themselves. Get used to just using them constantly; helps you survive to do your thing and helps your healers out more than I can even explain.
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Mystriss
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Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#49 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:25 pm

<removed to avoid conflicting opinions/further confusion>
Last edited by Mystriss on Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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daniilpb
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Re: [SW] General Guide

Post#50 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:49 pm

Mystriss wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:25 pm
Just to clarify because it seems there's been some confusion regarding my comments on trip-dancing that I presumed were common knowledge. I should have been more specific so allow me to clear up a few things:

"Build" - The use of mastery points in trees; gains you additional abilities (like Eye Shot as was mentioned.)

"Dancing" - Changing stances to gain access to abilities, be them "purchased" with mastery points -OR- the 'basic/core' stance abilities you gain regardless of mastery point allocation.

To wit RE my comments on "trip-dancing" - it takes zero points in the Assault tree to dance into assault and disarm a melee opponent with Opportunistic Strike. Similarly it takes zero master points to use Draw Blood (basic/core DoT available only in assault stance) and/or Flame Arrow (basic/core DoT available only in scout stance) in healer overload rotations. No mastery points need be spent to gain the "additive properties" of Acid Arrow (armor debuff), Rapid Fire (I use it to set back healers and cycle through bubbles, shields, timed abilities, etc.), Takedown (slow), Counterstrike (interrupt), or Brutal Assault/Flanking Shot (burst back attack.)


Regarding LA vs Split SFA, my main issue with LA has always been that you cannot kite effectively with LA (aka can't shoot it into a group of enemies behind you) and if you are a strafer vs a turner (aka if you use Q E movement vs A D movement) you cannot utilize LA's frontal cone very effectively on the move. Frontal cone limitations mean that LA is more inclined toward very situational "head on" usage; generally choke points, decent to spam into room type areas, and though you can occasionally catch the back lines packed up for ya in a zerg, I seriously hope that destro squishies in premades on here are smart enough to spread out, especially when LA or any other AoE is being laid into them. So, while yes, if you catch the enemy in a choke point and throw LA into tanks (be them in a premade or pug) you can indeed get max damage in SCs if that's your thing, you can also get top damage charts in SCs using scout or assault builds against high health tanks - however, this does not necessarily make you a more effective player, nor a more effective SW.


I always suggest listening to every SWs advice as anyone who plays one for any length of time picks things up, however in the end, one needs to set their SW up for both their personal play style as well as what they enjoy doing in game. Even /if/ you're playing premade SC's like some other SW, you're not going to have the same individual play style as they do and certain techniques that work great for them may not work as well for you. For example, I legit have what can only be described as a sixth sense for WE's (you'd have to watch my videos to believe me,) no other SW I've spoken to in all my years can relate to it; they cannot play like I do, can't take the "WE jump risks" that I do, they can't react to WE like I can - so no matter how much they try to emulate my build and play style they simply cannot play like I do. It's a "unique" talent I have, that I take advantage of, that I specifically build and play around. One has to find their "talents" and use those to their advantage.

The classes ability to be customized to the individual player, rather than changing your play style to fit the class, is the root of both its incalculable value and the oft unspoken love for it. Make it yours, always.
That's all very good but have you played on this server? You must know that the flight time of an arrow on this server is broken so it flies much more slower than it was on live, basically applying those fluffy Flame Arrows and other underperforming skills will take you a lot of time even w/o possible dodges/parries/blocks which happen quite a lot after defense changes. Also I don't know how Draw Blood with 0 points in Assault tree could help you, especially if you switch the stance right after you applied it (server will check your stats with every dot tick so it won't cause any damage w/o much strength). It's all about time management here.
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