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Why archmages are so overpowered?

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage

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Aebel
Posts: 125

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#31 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Its balanced because those AMs refuse to heal, when I was leveling my BW through t1 for the 2x event I dropped dead at the feet of several AMs due to chip damage from combustion (which I was venting regularly to not blow myself up). Never even so much as threw a HoT on me, but they were shooting lasers at the enemy like it was going out of style

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Psychopski
Posts: 71

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#32 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 am

Sulorie wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:33 pm
Psychopski wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Would be interesting to hear what kind of data is available on this class compared to Shaman. What adult would be opposed to looking at hard numbers and data? Total kills globally, total deaths, total heals, total dps in RVR. Compare AM data to Shaman, then all dps, then all healers. Look at same data in scens.
Both are balanced with each other.
So lets see the data then. If they're so balanced then you should welcome everyone seeing hard data supporting your statement.

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Nefarian78
Posts: 310

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#33 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:16 am

Psychopski wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 am
Sulorie wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:33 pm
Psychopski wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Would be interesting to hear what kind of data is available on this class compared to Shaman. What adult would be opposed to looking at hard numbers and data? Total kills globally, total deaths, total heals, total dps in RVR. Compare AM data to Shaman, then all dps, then all healers. Look at same data in scens.
Both are balanced with each other.
So lets see the data then. If they're so balanced then you should welcome everyone seeing hard data supporting your statement.
As if your "data" has anything to do with balance. On order the class i have the most kills by far are DoKs. does this mean there are too many DoKs which in turn means they're overpowered? Does that mean DoKs are underpowered since they're the class i killed the most?

Balance isn't a spreadsheet of data. You don't balance a game based on how many zerglings some random guy kills with X class.
The only thing that comes out of hyper-balancing a game with data spreadsheets is WoW's "balance" aka a hot pile of garbage and class stacking to oblivion.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#34 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:34 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:16 am
Psychopski wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 am
Sulorie wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:33 pm

Both are balanced with each other.
So lets see the data then. If they're so balanced then you should welcome everyone seeing hard data supporting your statement.
As if your "data" has anything to do with balance. On order the class i have the most kills by far are DoKs. does this mean there are too many DoKs which in turn means they're overpowered? Does that mean DoKs are underpowered since they're the class i killed the most?

Balance isn't a spreadsheet of data. You don't balance a game based on how many zerglings some random guy kills with X class.
The only thing that comes out of hyper-balancing a game with data spreadsheets is WoW's "balance" aka a hot pile of garbage and class stacking to oblivion.
Balance definitely includes a spreadsheet of data, massive piles of data dumped from character depositories, and a whole bunch of math. Pretty much the entire game is player decisions that are then mathed out into results which drive further player decisions. You are correct that the data should not include random guy kills with X class.

Also WoW specifically does not hyper balance with data spreadsheets and instead follows the community input/team input appraoch and tweak ad infinitum when things show up that break it. Same design philosophy here.

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Nefarian78
Posts: 310

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#35 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:02 am

Ramasee wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:34 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:16 am
Psychopski wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 am


So lets see the data then. If they're so balanced then you should welcome everyone seeing hard data supporting your statement.
As if your "data" has anything to do with balance. On order the class i have the most kills by far are DoKs. does this mean there are too many DoKs which in turn means they're overpowered? Does that mean DoKs are underpowered since they're the class i killed the most?

Balance isn't a spreadsheet of data. You don't balance a game based on how many zerglings some random guy kills with X class.
The only thing that comes out of hyper-balancing a game with data spreadsheets is WoW's "balance" aka a hot pile of garbage and class stacking to oblivion.
Balance definitely includes a spreadsheet of data, massive piles of data dumped from character depositories, and a whole bunch of math. Pretty much the entire game is player decisions that are then mathed out into results which drive further player decisions. You are correct that the data should not include random guy kills with X class.

Also WoW specifically does not hyper balance with data spreadsheets and instead follows the community input/team input appraoch and tweak ad infinitum when things show up that break it. Same design philosophy here.
I never said balance doesn't include spreadsheets of data. I said that balance isn't just a spreadsheet of data, especially of the (useless) kind listed.
Spoiler:
Also, if you don't think WoW isn't focused on hyperbalance...everyone has a stun, everyone has a soft cc, everyone has gapclosers, everyone has copy-paste defensives (Evasion/Die By the Sword for example), everyone has some sort of healing, everyone has a dot...WoW is literally hyperbalance the game and that's the reason why you see the top guilds stacking classes all day (A recent example, take a loot at MDI. Every team is Prot Warrior - 3 rogues - Healer, an older example is Blackhand mythic or Kil'jaeden. Same thing happens in Rated Battlegrounds)

harkerkane
Posts: 40

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#36 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:50 am

shaman and archimage dps are stupidely overpowered in small scale , that s a fact . when a ranged damage dealer can do same or more damage than mdps , heal himself with all the defense of healers (detaunt, bubulle bump snare etc) it makes them unkillable unless you have three or four people on him . which class exactly can do this ? nore dok nore wp solo can tank four mdps because they dont have the mobility of this two class . yes they are useless in wb or rvr but in solo they are king and only player playing them deny it . same **** with choppa thinking pull is ok .

Sulorie
Posts: 4160

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#37 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:22 am

harkerkane wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:50 am
shaman and archimage dps are stupidely overpowered in small scale , that s a fact . when a ranged damage dealer can do same or more damage than mdps , heal himself with all the defense of healers (detaunt, bubulle bump snare etc) it makes them unkillable unless you have three or four people on him . which class exactly can do this ? nore dok nore wp solo can tank four mdps because they dont have the mobility of this two class . yes they are useless in wb or rvr but in solo they are king and only player playing them deny it . same **** with choppa thinking pull is ok .
Mdps, who deal less dps, are just bad played. The selfhealing is mediocre at best and only counts in solo encounters, as the heal output is too low to counter any burst dmg.
They can't tank multiple attackers, they can try to avoid getting hit, which is naturally easier against melee enemies. Having said that, there are plenty tools to counter them and it doesn't take more than 2 competent players, who have either heals or pots, to kill them, unless you start the fight at 100ft range, which would be your own fault.

Both classes got nerfed big time already, their tree layout is a joke. When you try to solo people, get proper double pots, absorb and other stuff to tip the odds into your favor.
Dying is no option.

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Herthin
Posts: 47

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#38 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:44 am

Osred wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:38 am
Good in solo, not great in much else.
What happens if you pile up ppl with classes that perform overly well solo?

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Sulorie
Posts: 4160

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#39 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:08 am

Herthin wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:44 am
Osred wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:38 am
Good in solo, not great in much else.
What happens if you pile up ppl with classes that perform overly well solo?
Depends on the group synergy of those classes.
Look at sorc, bw, slayer, choppa, all huge damage but can only perform at their limit in a group.
Dying is no option.

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shaggyboomboom
Posts: 1230

Re: Why archmages are so overpowered?

Post#40 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am

Maybe you’re just trash 🤔
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