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[AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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wargrimnir
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Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#11 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:27 pm

AM/Sham need a functional mechanic before any minor balancing, it's on the list. Their current mechanic is a scrap of past potential and hardly worth being concerned about.
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Fendelphi
Posts: 7

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#12 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:29 am

I like the idea that you can reduce cast times or improve potency of spells by weaving them, but it does not really empower the AM much in actual battle.
In a situation where you are required to constantly heal, you will rarely use your offensive based spells(The 4 exceptions being Transfer Force, Balance Essence, Energy of Vaul and Law of Gold, since they helps in your supportive role).

- WP/DoK heals "more" when they can generate their mechanic more.
- Runepriests and Zealot can switch between "super heal" or "super offensive", but cant do both at the same time.
- Archmage and Shaman is, in my opinion, supposed to be the middle ground. Quickly being able to switch between damage and healing, although not with the same "burst" as the other 2 mechanics. The issue is, they are currently not rewarded much for doing so(the thing they want to do the most, is what they do worst as they get no bonuses while doing it).

Another issue is, it is unclear(from the UI) exactly how the mechanic works. Do you get the entire buff(+40% reduced cast time, +25% potency) for just being at 1 Tranquility, or does it scale based on how many stacks you have(1 stage being 8% reduced cast time, +5% potency)?

My suggestion:
- Change the number of max stacks to 3.
- Each stack provide 10% reduced cast time or 10% increased potency to the next spell of the opposite type.
- All stacks are consumed when a spell of the opposite type is cast. A stack of the opposite type is then added. Stacks fade if nothing is cast for 10 seconds.
- When stacks are consumed, the caster gains a 5 second buff based on what type of stacks that were consumed. If Tranquility was consumed(ie, you cast a force spell), you get a Willpower buff. If Force was consumed(cast a tranquility spell), you gain an Intelligence buff.
The more stacks consumed, the higher the buff value. Duration stays the same.

This give the following benefits:
1) You gain a buff in efficiency by constantly alternating between tranquility and force, but not to the degree that you will outshine the other classes.
2) You gain a large benefit of gathering max stacks and then use it on a spell of the opposite type, but it only takes 3 casts to do so. So you can focus mostly on healing allies, then cast Balance Essence or Transfer Force(or another force spell) to gain a Willpower buff to further enhance your healing.
2a) This also means that an Asuryan AM will be able to boost their offensive powers by sprinkling healing every 3-4 casts and can even stand to benefit by casting 3 healing abilities in a row("+30% potency on Searing Touch and Scatter the Winds? Yes please" or "-30% cast time for Dissipating Energies?").
3) It also means that you can potentially have both buffs going. If you get 3 stacks of Tranquility, then cast a force spell, you get 3X-willpower buff for 5 seconds, and enhance the cast time/potency of the force spell. If you then cast another Force spell, then followed by a Tranquil(which would still, most likely, benefit from the willpower buff), you can alternate between 2 stack casts, basically making every 3 cast 20% more potent.(3 stacks on both buffs would be hard to keep up at all time, as the duration is only 5 seconds, but it will be possible in some situations).
4) Certain important spells does not provide or consume any stacks(Mistress of the March, etc.), so using them makes it harder to maintain a high "chain" so to speak(the stat buff runs out easier when those spells are used as part of a spell combo), making it more balanced IMO.
5) How balanced this is depends on the amount of Willpower/Intelligence that is provided by the buff, which can be easily adjusted.

Overall, I think this would make the AM and Sham more adaptable in battle.

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Ysaran
Posts: 1219

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#13 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:59 am

what about making so that each stack of tranquillity/force increase effectivity of dps/heal by 8% (this % is debatable, i know it'sa critical point of the proposal) to a maximum of 40% and to give to AM an ability to change tranquillity into force and vice versa. like BO\SM change plan/stance?
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Fendelphi
Posts: 7

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#14 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:14 am

Ysaran wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:59 am what about making so that each stack of tranquillity/force increase effectivity of dps/heal by 8% (this % is debatable, i know it'sa critical point of the proposal) to a maximum of 40% and to give to AM an ability to change tranquillity into force and vice versa. like BO\SM change plan/stance?
So that stacks of Tranquil provides DPS boost, and stacks of Force provide heal bonus? Because that is basically what it already does. Problem is, if you are in a situation where you mostly want to heal, you gain no benefit of your mechanic while doing so. Occasionally casting offensive spells wont benefit your healing, only hurt it.

If you mean the opposite(gain DPS while using damage spells, gain healing bonus while casting healing), then healers have no incentive to use offense(because they would lose all their heal benefits) and same is true the other way around.
If you add a "convert mechanic", then why even have the mechanic at all, since you would be on +40% bonus no matter what you do. Unless you give it a long CD. But that would break the addaptability and flow of the class and also basically mimicking RP and Zealot. The only difference being you need to cast 5 spells to ahieve the bonus.

Also, you would no longer gain the benefits of reduced cast times, which is somewhat unique to these classes.

Starx
Posts: 336

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#15 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:37 pm

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=31862


Also saying the mechanic works for DPS I feel is pretty dishonest. It has absolutely ZERO influence on your gameplay/decision making because you would be using those -40% (ty tactics) heals regardless of if the mechanic existed or not. I think it's unfair to call something a class mechanic or at least say its functioning if it has no impact on how you play at all. The balance proposal by grunbag above actually DOES in both specs introduce decision making.

Fendelphi
Posts: 7

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#16 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:13 pm

Starx wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:37 pm viewtopic.php?f=95&t=31862


Also saying the mechanic works for DPS I feel is pretty dishonest. It has absolutely ZERO influence on your gameplay/decision making because you would be using those -40% (ty tactics) heals regardless of if the mechanic existed or not. I think it's unfair to call something a class mechanic or at least say its functioning if it has no impact on how you play at all. The balance proposal by grunbag above actually DOES in both specs introduce decision making.
The issue I have with that suggestion is that it does not create any incentive to use 2/3 of your abilities. In fact, it enforces a DPS spec to only DPS and a healer spec to only heal, as using other path abilities would diminish your primary function. As a healer, just casting 1 Vaul or Asuryan spells would reduce your healing by 30%.
Or if you as a DPS suddenly need to cast some defensive heals or assist an ally. You would have to do 3 casts of non-Asuryan spells to get a half decent heal off(and remember, this specific proposal also wants to decrease base heal/damage vaules by roughly 20-30% from their current amount).
So all that proposal really does is decrease the amount of casts to "switch gear" from 5 to 4, remove the reduction of cast times when doing so(a rather unique feature of AM/Sham), and decrease the base value of all spells. In compensation, while having "focus"(either -3 or +3) your spells are about 30% more effective than their current standard value, as long as you only use abilities of that path.
Basically, an AM will lose all flexibility in combat.

Edit: Just imagine going for an Asuryan AM with Mistress of the Marsh. Every time you cast MotM, you reduce your damage output by 30% on your next cast. Similar deal if you were to cast any other Path of Isha or Path of Vaul ability.

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: [AM] Archmage's High Magic needs a rework.

Post#17 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:07 am

Mythic's original idea of having the mechanic encourage weaving of two types of magic together is interesting, but in practice it has limited usefulness as designed.

Quick Proposal:

Allow both Force and Tranquility to build simultaneously but actively decay by one point for every 5 seconds you don't build a point. You'll see two numbers for both Force and Tranq (and Gork/Mork).

For each point of total High Magic:
The power of your spells (damage, healing, buffs, debuffs, shields) increase by 3%.

For each point of Force (5 Max):
For each point of Force, your Tranquility spells have AP costs and cast times reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%, and your instant Tranquility spells are 5/10/15/20/25% more effective

For each point of Tranquility (5 Max):
For each point of Tranquility, your Force spells have AP costs and cast times reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%, your instant Force spells are 5/10/15/20/25% more effective


Certain abilities would build multiple points, sometimes of both pools, and some abilities would consume all of one or both pools for more powerful effects.
For example, Funnel Essence could consume one point of Force per tick after the spell ends to keep itself going, Dissipating Energies could consume 5 Tranquility instead of its cooldown, etc

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