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IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#31 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:14 pm

jughurta wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 4:48 pm ...

If you speak damage , slayer have the best buff melee all over mmo rampage and inevitable doom and IB have best buff to increase the dps of his oath friend. compared to their mirror class
I don't really unerstand what are you trying to say, but rampage is pointless if you do 50 damage hits on characters that have 100+ hots ticking on them, it's the same as if the character blocks/parries your hit, since at the end of the round they are back to 100% hitpoints anyway. Same for the "IB's best buff" (btw which one is it, that is better than any random knight/chosen aura that is up 24/7 without spending any resource or cooldown)?
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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Dammy095
Posts: 371

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#32 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:21 pm

good slayers hit for 900+

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abodam
Posts: 128

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#33 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 pm

This thread boils down to the same point as the SW buff. Get Gut.
Magus / BG

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#34 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:11 pm

abodam wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 pm This thread boils down to the same point as the SW buff. Get Gut.
No it's actually not. Nothing to do with "get good" if your same skills do 20% less damage than 1,5 years ago exclusively due to one part of gear progression in the game, while other classes have tools to remain unaffected, these 2 classes doesn't.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

Gargis
Posts: 64

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#35 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:48 pm

Choppers and slayers are in a good position because both classes can get respectable str with gear and grp buffs. What you should be focusing on is ws.

Max physical mitigation is 75%, over cap or not. Weapon skill does not act as a debuff, but rather a bypass. Reallocate your renown and maybe change a couple of talismans for weapon skill.

The ttk is too low imo, toughness mitigation needs another look.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#36 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:41 am

how are you specced to complain about slayer ttk? you can't go full survive and still expect to kill in like 3 gcds just on the virtue of being mdps. ttk is fine toughness was already kicked to bits

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Ysaran
Posts: 1220

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#37 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am

kmark101 wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 6:08 pm
Ysaran wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:22 am
Grobbok wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 am slayer weak?
what about choppa!!!
but I see only order classes need attention
I saw a topic about how weak is SW, how bad is SM, AM, now slayer and IB
but everything on destro is perfect
"just if you see slayer the best what you can do is run away", someone words
You see a lot of Order topic because they are louder than Destro, that's all.
if you want to see some change on choppa open a post and write some good proposal.
Not true at all. Choppa with his pull has a very strong utility, sometimes even deciding the fate of a battle. At least that somehow balances their squishiness. At the same time, slayer is doing medicore damage_only for the same squishiness. Reason of this medicore damage is because of their damage type is degrading over time. This topic that I started have a very clear title and subject, which is physical damage only decrease of damage due to sky high armor values.
i dont understand why you quoted me.
kmark101 wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:11 pm if your same skills do 20% less damage than 1,5 years ago exclusively due to one part of gear progression in the game
lol, can you prove it? give us some data, give us some video of your test!
Rather, who are you? from what perspective do you speak? how are you geared and builded?
Without this information yor words have no value and you discourse is just a rants.
Zputadenti

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#38 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:34 am

Gargis wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:48 pm Choppers and slayers are in a good position because both classes can get respectable str with gear and grp buffs. What you should be focusing on is ws.

Max physical mitigation is 75%, over cap or not. Weapon skill does not act as a debuff, but rather a bypass. Reallocate your renown and maybe change a couple of talismans for weapon skill.

The ttk is too low imo, toughness mitigation needs another look.
No one will ever be able to reach 75% of armor reduction you ahould have more than 140 % pre a 50% armor pen....which is hard cap so it's impssible, a 60% it's more realistic
Last edited by Tesq on Wed May 15, 2019 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hogun
Posts: 289

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#39 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:57 am

from the point of view of an IB 86 and sl 60, these are two classes that absolutely do not need an up.
The slayer is a real killing machine, and the iB has 2 spec ( a def une off) quite normal.
finally, let's not talk too much about the mirror class that only exists in the dreams of some people.
My video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65aHhb4kCJU
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Hogun - IB 80+ Hoguun RP 80+ Hogunn ING 80+ HOG Slayer 80+ Gor IB 2M 50
(KOBS,WH,WP,BW,SW,WL,SM,BO,CHOSEN,SH,MAGUS, MARAU ,CHOP,SHAM )40+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJx3So8q6o

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: IB and Slayer are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses

Post#40 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:45 pm

kmark101 wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 5:38 pm As the subject say, IB and Slayer classes are gradually getting weaker as the game progresses. IB currently doing approximately 20% less damage than 1,5 years ago. The reason for this is the continued increase of armor values generally around classes and the abundance of purple talismans from pve. Also as weapons probably won't get stronger (as per a recent discussion in another thread), this trend will just continue and will get worse.

These are the only two classes that only have physical damage type in their disposal and thus putting them at a huge disadvantage in the long term. Even thou armor ratings have significantly increased, high armor potions are the standard norm, these classes have no armor bypass mechanic either. Their only tool is the IB's armor debuff (and even that is only single target, with a cooldown..), but again, the value of the debuff was optimized for an earlier era as it have a much smaller effect now.

A few suggestions how to fix this:
- Give some part of IB/Slayer damage magic components, for example the dot parts of their damage could be corporeal
- Give them some kind of armor bypass mechanic % as with every single other dps and some tank classes have
- Increase the value of the IB armor debuff to at least double, as this skill uses grudge and scaling with grudge (the 100 grudge version is still negligible alone, the IB needs to use a morale ability to do some noticable debuff... again, no other class have it like this)
- Remove/nerf armor potions... and before ppl post "but there are resist potions", they are only for 1 out of 3 resists... so how about make armor potions only 1/3rd of their value too?
- Use IB's Shield Sweep skill as an AoE armor debuff skill (with a tactic slotted maybe, like the first Stone line tactic is super useless atm and noone has it). This skill currently doesn't have a place on anyone's quickbar as it's a waste of resources for nothing. With this change, it would provide the necessary armor debuff for Slayers for Warband play, as order lacks on the AoE armor debuff part currently, while 2 of their popular classes can't function without it well.
What AoE armor debuff do you think destruction has that order lacks? Am I the ignorant one here? The only one I know of is on the zealot.

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