low levels get shaft

[BeautfulToad]

If you think you are rewarded unfairly just level renown in RvR and go to scenarios when you get the rewards you think you should get for your time?

It certainly is not a feasible alternative for 31s-39s to RvR as suggested.

RvR is totally feasible alternative, what are you talking about?

The thing started when someone said when there is a fort battle there is nothing for lower levels to do, then someone said "do SCs". I said that I think RvR is fine but the SCs do shaft lower level players (31-39) so not a great alternative to RvR.

[Hargrim]

The thing started when someone said when there is a fort battle there is nothing for lower levels to do, then someone said "do SCs". I said that I think RvR is fine but the SCs do shaft lower level players (31-39) so not a great alternative to RvR.

But you can do RvR when forts are open? And you can do SCs when you want? And you can PvE when you want? So you can do whatever you want, nothing is limiting you except your perception that some stuff is not "worth your time", right? Is there really anything to discuss?

Also I guess it would be nice if one of the moderators / community managers could come and clear the thread from all those lazy sexual references.

[BeautfulToad]

But you can do RvR when forts are open? And you can do SCs when you want? And you can PvE when you want? So you can do whatever you want, nothing is limiting you except your perception that some stuff is not "worth your time", right? Is there really anything to discuss?

Also I guess it would be nice if one of the moderators / community managers could come and clear the thread from all those lazy sexual references.

The thread title itself is a sexual reference.

The issue was raised by someone about low levels not being able to do RvR in downtime. I think it is a relatively common perception; the perception of a grind for lower level players. I offered an explanation for the source (T4 SCs). I think if new players see RoR as problematic it should be on the minds of you guys running the server. Not sure what sort of priority it should be given compared to adding new features though, if it is actually stopping fresh blood from playing or if it is a simple matter of the things discussed here could be better articulated to players.

[Hargrim]

The thread title itself is a sexual reference.

The issue was raised by someone about low levels not being able to do RvR in downtime. I think it is a relatively common perception; the perception of a grind for lower level players. I offered an explanation for the source (T4 SCs). I think if new players see RoR as problematic it should be on the minds of you guys running the server. Not sure what sort of priority it should be given compared to adding new features though, if it is actually stopping fresh blood from playing or if it is a simple matter of the things discussed here could be better articulated to players.

It is, it doesn't mean it's not against the rules.

Also, the case is that low levels are able to RvR when they want. So, what's the real issue?

Do you have any numbers to support the perception you talk about? Or proof? Or your PoV at all?

[BeautfulToad]

Do you have any numbers to support the perception you talk about? Or proof? Or your PoV at all?

We are discussing this in a thread called "low levels get shaft" in which half a dozen low level players are complaining. As for SCs, players lose their **** all the time about it.

It is an issue, but as i just said I dont know how serious. I cant access logs to harvest quit rates but Id see it as a potential issue if I wanted new players to stick around. I could probably collect some data on it if you want actual numbers, without admin priveleges, etc.

[Hargrim]

Where did you get this half dozen low level players in this thread? I just did a count and at best its maybe 3 forum users.

I think the exaggerations you use are not really working tho.

[BeautfulToad]

Where did you get this half dozen low level players in this thread? I just did a count and at best its maybe 3 forum users.

I think the exaggerations you use are not really working tho.

In terms of understanding player retention you would use the RoR meta data. I can do some analysis without it and will post it up in this forum section. Might be the weekend before it is done.

I am not sure what you are disagreeing with exactly though. Are you saying that low level 30s is not an important factor in determining player retention in RoR? You could be right, but I will get some numbers and we can discuss then without referring to anecdotes.

[Hargrim]

You seem to make some assumptions that are not based on anything. I ask direct questions and I don't really get any direct answers from you.

If any analysis of metadata is needed, ask one of the leads, maybe Max or Natherul, not something I'm interested in doing.

What I disagree with: that there is an issue at all. Yes, the bolster change for Rank 31+ players could be gradual instead of power drop you have now, but other than this the main issue of the thread existed for like a week and is already resolved. Additional brackets for 31-39 players are not feasible. Players can play SCs on those level, or not. The rewards are OK, too bad you can't get full set of Mercenary gear after 10 scenarios with downconversion, but this is by design.

So, what exactly is the issue you are talking about? Let me repeat, there were like 3 ppl in this thread (instead of 6 you mentioned) in this thread that said anything about the lowbie scenarios, and mostly in context of RvR. I think I debunked every issue you raised, or at least provided explanation (which you might not agree, but in this case lets agree to disagree).

[BeautfulToad]

You seem to make some assumptions that are not based on anything. I ask direct questions and I don't really get any direct answers from you.

I did an analysis of one of my guild, China Tower, drop out rates. For this, I took our roster and logged everyone's level who had not logged in in the past month. Bear in mind, if the tier changes did not cause drop out rates, there would be a steady incremental drop out rate (i.e., the lower the level the higher probability of dropping out).

It should be said that in T1 the numbers are so massive, I did not bother including them. Likewise, it is hard to say which characters are alts, and stopped playing after T1. I would say that the drop out rate of people moving T1->T2 is massive in comparison to the drop out rate from T3->T4.

Likewise, the number of level 40s dropping out is quite large.

My point is that from T2/T3->T4 the only thing that changes is SCs. Now, it should be said I did something similar with another guild, called save, and it was a bit flatter between 20-35. In other words, my guild may be not representive of the population as a whole. But I would be surprised if there is not a a slightly higher drop out rate in the 31-mid 30s bracket than the mid-20s-30 bracket, which you would not expect.

T2 less than 19: 17
20-25: 1
26-30: 8
31-35: 13
36-39: 3
40: 23

All I am saying is the devs might want to do analysis of this type, not least to see if forums are representative of the players. I am not even saying these drop out rates should force devs to do something, since changes could make it worse (or these might be relativel good drop out rates, idk). In terms of player retention there are four key points in player progression to be aware of, in order of importance:

1. T1/learning the game
2. Retaining level 40s
3. Switch from T1 to T2/T3
4. Switch from T2/T3 to T4 (this is presumably to do with SCs)

[BurbsToo]

Lol. I tried to start a thread on this topic (or just helping noobs in general) and it was locked immediately by some antisocial idiot.