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dps is over powered

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Goermsi
Posts: 134

Re: dps is over powered

Post#31 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:42 am

The joke is that a DD shouldn't be able to take out a healer one on one after the burst that takes place at the beginning.
But this does not correspond to reality. If you don't build up your healer as a tank, you have absolutely no chance. Even if the DD doesn't rotate well or its gear is just mixed, it will bring the healer to his knees in the long run.
Surely, this has nothing to do with the skill of the players. It rather depends on the classes and their advantages. A Shamie has to run, he can't absorb the damage like a Runepriest or Siegmar/DoK through higher armor, instand-casts or generally shorter cast times. The misery already starts with not being able to remove some conditions and ends with poorly balanced DD classes.

In short, yes, the damage is much too high. There is just a lack - and this is an important point - of possibilities to limit incoming damage at the beginning. By that I mean absolutely not the detaunt because it only applies to yourself and only compensates damage instead of offering a way to avoid it. Heal over time can only be used when damage occurs. A cast that takes 2-3 seconds to heal? In the meantime damage has to occur. I myself started in Guildwars 1 and there were really fantastic possibilities for healers. I remember a spell called "Guardian". For 5 seconds, 50% of the Meele attacks went nowhere. Only 5 seconds, could be despelled during attack... but hey. Most of the average DDs ran into the "Guardian" and the healer remained almost untouched by the incoming burst due to good foresight. Such proactive spells lack RoR, which means the healer can only limit damage by positioning, foresight, and movement. But that's only a small part and it would be nicer if that foresight would be rewarded by spells that minimize the incoming damage .... but hey .... that didn't exist back then. So what remains are average DDs who think they are heroes. The big "Woha"-Effect usually comes to these people only when they meet an optimized 2-2-2 group and use the current game mechanics even better. But that's another topic again ;-)
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Tankbeardz
Posts: 627

Re: dps is over powered

Post#32 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:57 am

Goermsi wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:42 am Surely, this has nothing to do with the skill of the players. It rather depends on the classes and their advantages. A Shamie has to run, he can't absorb the damage like a Runepriest or Siegmar/DoK through higher armor, instand-casts or generally shorter cast times. The misery already starts with not being able to remove some conditions and ends with poorly balanced DD classes.
Shammy is easily the tankiest healer if played that way (auto detaunt / run away / snare puddle / detaunt / AoE Detaunt).

Its the least favorable in a 2-2-2 setup because it can't cleanse classes big burst ranged classes like AM, BW, or Engi. Also, it's big heals take too long and it's tools aren't as good (zealot flash heal is insta, hot can give absorb and armor, stagger / dok has 1.5s group heal, group hot, group cleanse), with the exception of FotG.

I really have no idea how you are coming up with this.

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Goermsi
Posts: 134

Re: dps is over powered

Post#33 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:11 am

Well, run-away and the puddle only help you with active movement. This also assumes that you can despell possible limitations of your speed, which often doesn't work because the slow is covered by other states or you can't remove the slow as a whole because the class doesn't allow it.
Let's be honest, which DD doesn't immediately start a Slow/CC after the introduction of the burst - otherwise the target will run away, shaman or not. ;-)

The autodetaunt is a fine thing, but I don't think it stacks up with the targeted detaunt. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. As written above, in 1 on 1 you get violent problems despite the detaunt. Anyone who claims something different is welcome to give me a private lesson, I am always ready to learn. Again. My main focus is on the spells missing to avoid damage. Not to compensate. Currently, damage can only be prevented by positioning, foresight and positional play. There is a lack of abilities to let the damage run into the void.
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Tankbeardz
Posts: 627

Re: dps is over powered

Post#34 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:28 am

I can easily show you how wrong you are. Sure if 3 dps are on u and u are HD'ed and KD'ed you will die...like any other healer.

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Goermsi
Posts: 134

Re: dps is over powered

Post#35 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:31 am

Tankbeardz wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:28 am I can easily show you how wrong you are. Sure if 3 dps are on u and u are HD'ed and KD'ed you will die...like any other healer.
Gladly ;-)
Write me a PM, I am European and have time for a rendezvous tonight from 19 o'clock. Gladly with a chat about Discrod. Bring your friends if possible, the more to test the better. Maybe there are duels in the chaos desert, you could connect.

But please explain to me briefly why and what am I wrong about? What exactly is your statement aiming at?
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: dps is over powered

Post#36 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:08 am

Armor stacking, 7k-8k wounds and high negative chance to be crit are all you need as shaman or any healer in general.
When you see the attack coming in order to detaunt, which depends on your attention, no single DD can kill you.
Dying is no option.

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Goermsi
Posts: 134

Re: dps is over powered

Post#37 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:46 am

Believe me, that's not enough.
My shaman is currently wearing Vanq. Life is somewhere between 7K & 8K. In addition there is a Beastlord armor bonus, armor potions and the three parts armor bonus over the jewels ... currently doesn't know the name. Initiative is high, somewhere around 400. More can't be done with the character at the moment, unless I give up life in favor of armour/resistance/initiative. Reputation points are also invested in damage reduction.
If the Detaunt does not come the Char dies in the burst of Lion or Slayer. Doesn't even have to be a good one ;-) If the Detaunt comes in time the char goes far below 40-50% of life, gets covered Healdebuff & slow and can only then start to raise heal ... over time. Very bad prospects to take countermeasures. My impression is that it is made much too easy especially for the Meeles. Such a Slayer one can possibly still kick, but a lion ... haha ... he jumps again :-D

*edit* and of course, i have autodetaunt and run sloted. On Top, red Shoes - makes the shaman fasta!

*edit2*
Under lab conditions, I'd agree with you. As an example, you would never turn your back on the attacker to prevent critical blows. But such a clinical 1 Vs. 1 does not usually exist. If the player under pressure can't avoid the focus of the DD (and that as fast as possible) then it's only a matter of time until he falls back due to slow or low life and gets into the focus of other players. At the latest then there will be a shift in the shaft. As mentioned above, mechanics are missing to spare an attentive player this. Action for reaction so to speak. If I see the engine control light on my car flashing, I won't drive until the engine fails, will I? But in RoR you do that :D
Last edited by Goermsi on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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spiritbull
Posts: 52

Re: dps is over powered

Post#38 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:11 am

Well, my experience is different (my main is shama) and I agree with Sulorie.
If you specced tanky on your heal, then no single dps class can kill you. In most cases even 2.
If a shammy survives the knock (and he should be able to with 7-8k of hp), then WL or Slayer or WH will not be able to kill him. Even if you have not detaunted prior the knock, it is the 1st thing you do after and your hp bar starts quickly run up. Of course, you shouldn't facetank them: better run, knockback, put puddle between you and them, etc.

I would agree that after bloodlord set and weapons the mDPS became more painful for heals, but nothing unmanageable. Anyway that's better direction than having 6v6 for half an hour until first kill

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Ghostweed
Posts: 183

Re: dps is over powered

Post#39 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:13 am

Goermsi wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:46 am Believe me, that's not enough.
My shaman is currently wearing Vanq. Life is somewhere between 7K & 8K. In addition there is a Beastlord armor bonus, armor potions and the three parts armor bonus over the jewels ... currently doesn't know the name. Initiative is high, somewhere around 400. More can't be done with the character at the moment, unless I give up life in favor of armour/resistance/initiative. Reputation points are also invested in damage reduction.
If the Detaunt does not come the Char dies in the burst of Lion or Slayer. Doesn't even have to be a good one ;-) If the Detaunt comes in time the char goes far below 40-50% of life, gets covered Healdebuff & slow and can only then start to raise heal ... over time. Very bad prospects to take countermeasures. My impression is that it is made much too easy especially for the Meeles. Such a Slayer one can possibly still kick, but a lion ... haha ... he jumps again :-D
One WL or SL should not kill you in 1v1. AP leech, detaunt, BFM on pet, SIO, tough DOT and u are good. Dont forget the punt and dont panic and run (also 1 rr point in parry, it saves lives), start running at the right time. Focus on the rotation and you should be even able to kill them in heal setup. I was farmed by WL after I took 2yrs break due to the gear gap (Ruin vs Vanq/Inv), but now I have sentinel/beastlord and its all good.
Gorrgfang da Shaman & Gokrok da Black Orc

Direbloodykiller
Posts: 80

Re: dps is over powered

Post#40 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:25 am

havartii wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:04 am Does anyone else feel that the fights are way to short and dps is way to strong? I can't even play this game in this state.
I smell a troll

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