Osred wrote:Nobody cares about the damage morales are doing. Its about the overabundance of morale pumps on destro that is causing major discrepancy between Order warbands and Destro Warbands. Currently it is Morale Bomb = Win.
In a wb v wb session how is it fair that Order when reaching m1, destro tanks are reaching m3/4 and everyone else their m2s allowing a MASSIVE advantage in straight fights. He who fires off the bomb first wins the first engaement and in most cases the rest.
I'm reposting Aza's writeup.
Order
Pump
BW - Embrace the Flames - self 200 on crit, 3s retrigger = ~66/s
AM - Bolstering Boon - any 250/2s = 125/s
Drain
SM - Intimidating Blow - 100/5s = -20/s
WH - Vitriolic Judgement - 225 @ 25% direct damage to back of target
Destruction
Pump
CH - Destined for Victory - self 200 on block, 3s retrigger = 66/s
BO - You'z see me blok dat? - self 200 on block, 3s retrigger = 66/s
ZE - By Tzeentch's Will! - self 200 on critical heal, 3s retrigger = 66/s
SO - Glorious Carnage - self 200 on crit, 3s retrigger = 66s/s
SH - Get Movin'! - group 150/10s on direct damage = 15/s (150/5s with second tactic = 30/s)
SQ - Strength in Numbas - self 100/3s on 25% groupmate direct damage = 33/s?
Drain
BO - Lookin' For Opp'tunity - 216/1.15s = -187/s
SH - Hurts, Don't It? - 150/2s = -75/s
MA - Crushing Blows - 225 / 25% direct damage while in Monstrosity
Anyone reading this can see the obvious. Order had their crit nerfed. But crit can be mitigated, blocked, disrupted, dodged or even have their damage passively reduced through renown. Morale cannot. Why does destro have such a massive monopoly on morale gain.
Some people gonna blame me for being snob but i can't resist that bunch of fallacies.
From warband perspective:
You're totally mistaken mate. If you not care the damage morales, you gonna lose the fight. Simple. Just get used to play with more BW's instead of WL-WH-SW in warbands. You have some bad times because of marauders morale drain so what are you doing for slowing down marauders ? Just think and you'll find dozens of counterplay for it
-Thanks god any order warbands not using these tools-.
And i'm not happy about morale bombings btw. Unmitigable damage is just silly. Makes the fights really quick -around 25-30 seconds- %90 of the time . You can check some videos there:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtTblf ... wUYLWo96RQ
And you mentioned that for the warband vs warband situations, we never use our tanks M4 unless the fight contines like more than 1-2 minutes which is %1 of our encounters. It's a LIE destro warbands using their M4 every fight. Trust me, if we wait for M4's we'll lose the combat due to lack of burst damage of RAZE.
Another point you made which is not understandable: You saying order's crit tactics nerfed and damage abilities which benefits from crit defendable but morales not. So what's your point ? Order's early morale bomb potantial is incredibly better than destro which is NOT defendable. The only way to counter that burst damage from M2 is RAZE, not ID.
This is a FACT accept or not: Both realms got unique instruments, in a short term:
Destro: Better morale gain
Order: Better utility
Osred wrote:
And why do you do that? Because currently morale bombing is the all and end all in wb v wb fights which destro have a massive advantage due to their morale gain.
As I said before. Orders tools can be mitigated with an array of tools and passives. Destro morales cannot be evaded, mitigated or avoided due to Order lacking tools to avoid it. People quote M4 morale drain yet Order never reaches these as the fight is finished by the time they reach m1, because destruction has already morale bombed the **** out of Order with m2's and M4s by then.
Wrong, simply wrong. As i said before order warbands have huge advantage on offensive morales due to BW M2 and they CAN'T mitigable. If you not using BW's in your warbands, don't expect the win the fights. It's not games fault, yours.
AM's morale pump is free for everyone, you can pump the morale out of the party.
dontcomplainx wrote:No the am is not the problem, the problem here is chosen, BO and etc able to gain moral way faster than order tanks, you are only saying that cuz you dont wanna see your chosen without that OP tatic
You already have enormous advantage of BW M2, are you joking or trolling ?
The morale bomb balanced around BW + AM morale pump = BO + CH + Shaman morale pump. As i said before using ID in warband vs warband is exteremly rare.
dontcomplainx wrote:
hmm so tell me why Haojin ask to his tanks use moral tatic, jewels, belts with moral? a little bird just told me that :)1
Who are you and which guild are you in ? We tested tons of different compositions at the past, yes morale jewels was one of them which makes your tanks really weak.
Azarael wrote:When the entire point the Order posters are making is that Destruction have more and better tools to work with morale, and that this is the way to win mass engagements, I don't think your posts are helping to dispel that much, Thayli.
Also, can we not quote spoilers? It breaks the board.
The way to win the massive fights is = more burst damage aka morale bomb aka raze not ID rotation. We tried it before [ with morale jewelry ] and it's not feasible.
Tesq wrote:
exept that if the problem are bo/chosen bump and m2
then 1 SM can theorically interrupt all tanks using m2..
1 tank can interrupt 8x morales....
Thats why our tanks using RD before raze.
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My final thoughts about the morale gain/morales are:
1-The morale gain in this server prevents players to use M4 in warband vs warband situations.
2-The morale gain in this server prevents the classes which don't have a morale tactic, to usage of M2. [ unless they pumped by Shaman or AM]
3-Usage of M4 is exteremly rare except keep sieges or warcamp blockades.
4-Both realms are rely on early morales because of current morale gain.
5-We shouldn't talk about nerfing morale gain of BO+CH unless BW's morale gain nerfed.
6-Morale damage should be reworked.
7-Small scale is an another [long] story to balance in these terms.
8-We should list and discuss ALL unique tactics. morales, abilities if you decide to change a realms strongest side.