Return of Reckoning

As i tried explain it back in April when this skill was introduced (which sadly got shut down with ban threats for daring to comment on changes) that skills is way too strong comparing to actual melee classes equivalents.
Lets have a look:

In Pursuit - *New Ability* - This ability is placed at 15 points in the Wrath tree. This ability takes off snares, roots, disarms and silencing effects. Additionally it makes you immune from snares and increases your movement speed by 50 for 5 seconds. Cooldown is 30 seconds (including tactic that every melee wp runs mandatory). 30ap cost.

Now, in comparision, 2 out of 6 melee classes doesnt even have a speed buff at all (WE, WH), only simple snare/root removal and immunity. Remaining 4 classes, have to use 2 separate skills (which means wasting 2gcd and taking more dmg if skill is used as escape tool before actually escaping) just to receive inferior effect, lets take a look on them:

CC removal skill - 45ap cost, remove snares and roots and gives 10s immunity, 1 min cd

Speed buff skill - 50% speed buff for 7s, 30s cd, breaks on any ability use

Now, as we can clearly see, melee WP have massive advantage here:
- he removes cc effects (including disarm and silence which we will get back in a moment) on top of snare and root in 1 button press aswell as gaining speed buff, any melee doing his cc removal can be easily shut down with kd by skilled tank, theres no counterplay to wp as same moment he pressed it with Usain Bolt speed he will be out of range immediatelly
- WP speed buff DOESNT break on ability use, which creates massive advantage over real melee classes - he can use his 15s long range detaunt on rdps trying to harm him, or he can use his hit and heal skills on enemies surrounding him, with disarm arm and silence immunity he cant be stopped from doing so
- WP cc immunity is avaiable twice more often than actual melee class - anyone playing melee know how important and powerfull that immunity is
- WP for all that advantage have to pay mere 30ap vs 45ap of real melee classes.

It can be clearly seen that that skill in current shape is vastly overperforming and gives melee WP way too more advantage over dedicated melee classes that are not blessed with 100 feet detaunts and melee selfheals combating pure healer classes.
Fair and balanced change would look like this:

In Pursuit - this ability takes off snares, roots, disarms and silencing effects. Additionally it makes you immune from snares, roots and increases your movement speed by 50 for 7 seconds. Cooldown is 1 minute (after applying tactic obviously). 45ap cost, breaks on any ability use.

This way WP still would get a good tool to get in or out of the fight, same cd on cc break which would include 2 bonus status effects that normal melees doesnt remove, gain additional root immunity same as said melees, those immunities would be on same duration as melees, same ap cost and speed buff itself would be avaiable on 1 min cd instead 30s cd to balance out all the perks already gained.

Yeah but DPS Warrior Priest is garbage at anything but farming pugs and dueling. It's a good ability, but its not gamebreaking because the class itself has low damage compared to a real dps, and low healing compared to a real healer.

GodlessCrom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm Yeah but DPS Warrior Priest is garbage at anything but farming pugs and dueling. It's a good ability, but its not gamebreaking because the class itself has low damage compared to a real dps, and low healing compared to a real healer.

Thank you, i was hoping for a post of this type so i can respond to it



Here you go 6vs6 of 2 solid teams, and i can assure you wp didnt get his numbers by aoe spam in such fight. Lets not forget the part where WP also have a high dmg finisher skill which plenty actual dpses doesnt and can produce 50% of the heals of real healers while topping dps leaderboard.

Gravord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:20 pm

GodlessCrom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm Yeah but DPS Warrior Priest is garbage at anything but farming pugs and dueling. It's a good ability, but its not gamebreaking because the class itself has low damage compared to a real dps, and low healing compared to a real healer.

Thank you, i was hoping for a post of this type so i can respond to it



Here you go 6vs6 of 2 solid teams, and i can assure you wp didnt get his numbers by aoe spam in such fight. Lets not forget the part where WP also have a high dmg finisher skill which plenty actual dpses doesnt and can produce 50% of the heals of real healers while topping dps leaderboard.

Actually I can assure you that a large portion of my damage did stem from Soulfire/Smite/Guilty Soul.

The fact of the matter is that In Pursuit! doesn't change the fact that the Wrath WP does pisspoor DPS overall, and isn't a threat against competent & equal-skilled enemies.

I'm honestly baffled as to why you keep beating on this dead horse? How many DPS WP do you see dominating the lakes and scenarios - even with this omgawd OP ability? A Wrath WP does about 50% of the burst of a WL or WH. There is literally 0 reason to take one into a group. A DPS DOK, on the other hand, provides the game's best HD, and has better DPS overall.

peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Gravord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:20 pm

GodlessCrom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm Yeah but DPS Warrior Priest is garbage at anything but farming pugs and dueling. It's a good ability, but its not gamebreaking because the class itself has low damage compared to a real dps, and low healing compared to a real healer.

Thank you, i was hoping for a post of this type so i can respond to it



Here you go 6vs6 of 2 solid teams, and i can assure you wp didnt get his numbers by aoe spam in such fight. Lets not forget the part where WP also have a high dmg finisher skill which plenty actual dpses doesnt and can produce 50% of the heals of real healers while topping dps leaderboard.

Actually I can assure you that a large portion of my damage did stem from Soulfire/Smite/Guilty Soul.

The fact of the matter is that In Pursuit! doesn't change the fact that the Wrath WP does pisspoor DPS overall, and isn't a threat against competent & equal-skilled enemies.

I'm honestly baffled as to why you keep beating on this dead horse? How many DPS WP do you see dominating the lakes and scenarios - even with this omgawd OP ability? A Wrath WP does about 50% of the burst of a WL or WH. There is literally 0 reason to take one into a group. A DPS DOK, on the other hand, provides the game's best HD, and has better DPS overall.

I beat that "dead horse" as you nicely called attempt to open discussion, because that skill itself is vastly overperforming in comparision to actual melee classes. I understand its your main but as a staff member you should show more care for overall gameplay balance than about keeping favorable advantage for class you play most.

And yet no one died in that sc. Perhaps if theyd had Csi instead of peter they would have killed something. Dps WP has low burst and is really just not that great. If they bring back some .ab ex changes, then perhaps youd have a point.

Also its a 15 point ability that takes 3 more mastery points to obtain that a normal build. By doing this even a rr70+ character has to give up Sigmar's Shield or Sigmar's Vision and it cannot be combined with grace of sigmar tactic for more damage healing.

Melee careers gain those two abilities for free, and nearly all their archtype abilities work with their dps spec. Same is not true for dps wps and DoKs.

In Pursuit is strong, its also a major build investment with opportunity costs.

Gravord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:27 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Gravord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:20 pm

Thank you, i was hoping for a post of this type so i can respond to it



Here you go 6vs6 of 2 solid teams, and i can assure you wp didnt get his numbers by aoe spam in such fight. Lets not forget the part where WP also have a high dmg finisher skill which plenty actual dpses doesnt and can produce 50% of the heals of real healers while topping dps leaderboard.

Actually I can assure you that a large portion of my damage did stem from Soulfire/Smite/Guilty Soul.

The fact of the matter is that In Pursuit! doesn't change the fact that the Wrath WP does pisspoor DPS overall, and isn't a threat against competent & equal-skilled enemies.

I'm honestly baffled as to why you keep beating on this dead horse? How many DPS WP do you see dominating the lakes and scenarios - even with this omgawd OP ability? A Wrath WP does about 50% of the burst of a WL or WH. There is literally 0 reason to take one into a group. A DPS DOK, on the other hand, provides the game's best HD, and has better DPS overall.

I beat that "dead horse" as you nicely called attempt to open discussion, because that skill itself is vastly overperforming in comparision to actual melee classes. I understand its your main but as a staff member you should show more care for overall gameplay balance than about keeping favorable advantage for class you play most.

Not my main, I'm actually a fan of removing the charge in favour of more damage and less healing so that it functions as a DPS while maintaining inherent mobility issues. That doesn't mean the ability is OP.

What you have done is provide a photo from a scenario, and have attributed topping the damage board as being a viable DPS. You have then put this together with the charge ability, and have inferred that the Wrath WP is OP.

What I have done is educate you on what actually happened/what this screenshot actually shows. It is up for you now to decide whether or not a 15pt charge ability that means dropping most of your defensive/melee heal potential, is 'still OP' on a class that does less single-target DPS than a 600str Swordmaster.

GodlessCrom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:30 pm And yet no one died in that sc. Perhaps if theyd had Csi instead of peter they would have killed something. Dps WP has low burst and is really just not that great. If they bring back some .ab ex changes, then perhaps youd have a point.

That can happen when 2 strong teams meet.

Ramasee wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:31 pm Also its a 15 point ability that takes 3 more mastery points to obtain that a normal build. By doing this even a rr70+ character has to give up Sigmar's Shield or Sigmar's Vision and it cannot be combined with grace of sigmar tactic for more damage healing.

Melee careers gain those two abilities for free, and nearly all their archtype abilities work with their dps spec. Same is not true for dps wps and DoKs.

In Pursuit is strong, its also a major build investment with opportunity costs.

http://www.ror.builders/career/warrior- ... ,4189,4149

Sorry what? WP need only rr60 for cookie cutter build which will offer him finisher ability (most dps doesnt have one), aa speed tactic (half melees doesnt have one), insane Sigmar's Shield that no melee have anything anywhere close in potency, 10% crit and parry tactic (no melee have one that potent), active Prayer and a ton other utylities for himself and the group.
And people only complain is that it doesnt have burst as most bursty dps classes? Be serious.

Right. Second go at this post...

As aforesaid, you're isolating a particular ability which is powerful and comparing it to the equivalents on other classes without respecting the context of the rest of the class. This isn't how the balance forum works. You don't compare single abilities to their equivalents on other classes, you compare specs to specs. If a topic is made about Inevitable Doom's ST damage, for example, that topic can contextually be read to be about Skavenslayer ST DPS versus the other trees, because why else would we care about it?

What you have done is create a post that shows that one ability is more powerful than another. This is about as relevant as showing that Inevitable Doom is better than Lotsa Choppin'. The spec as a whole is what matters, and unless you're about to make a thread about how Wrath WP is overperforming, then this topic is going precisely nowhere, especially as I have other designs for WP myself.