[Eng/Magus] Sticky Bombs / Seed of Chaos

[Penril]

Take it easy guys, Engi/Magus won't get any kind of heal debuff (they don't need one; both are in pretty good shape atm).

Think of other ways to make SoC/SB useful.

Engineer/Magus still in pretty bad spots for 6 mans, i know 1v1/pug arguments are not allowed but what looking glass are we using for balance discussions, or is it a per thread basis and if so what are we looking to accomplish in this thread. It seems like giving engineer slightly more damage/pressure potential in large scale ORvR fighting is the goal here if HD's are out of the realm of possibility?

Notice that I am using white letters; therefore, those posts are my opinion as a player. Not me moderating as a Balance mod. Probably my bad for saying "won't get a heal debuff" when I should have posted "they don't need a heal debuff". I edited the post.

[Tankbeardz]

Take it easy guys, Engi/Magus won't get any kind of heal debuff (they don't need one; both are in pretty good shape atm).

Think of other ways to make SoC/SB useful.

Engineer/Magus still in pretty bad spots for 6 mans, i know 1v1/pug arguments are not allowed but what looking glass are we using for balance discussions, or is it a per thread basis and if so what are we looking to accomplish in this thread. It seems like giving engineer slightly more damage/pressure potential in large scale ORvR fighting is the goal here if HD's are out of the realm of possibility?

Notice that I am using white letters; therefore, those posts are my opinion as a player. Not me moderating as a Balance mod. Probably my bad for saying "won't get a heal debuff" when I should have posted "they don't need a heal debuff". I edited the post.

I understand your POV but I have always argued that damage wasn't the real problem. The real problem has always been the lack of utility in a so-called utility class.

[Penril]

I understand. And I would have agreed with a heal debuff (possibly outgoing!) back when they didn't have a 40% damage buff.

[bloodi]

The real problem has always been the lack of utility in a so-called utility class.

Called by who?

I never heard anyone arguing they are anything but a rdps. They have the same cc toolkit other rdps have, maybe a bit more.

Bw have a healdebuff and they dont even bother speccing for it most of the time, sorcs dont have any at all.

Another class can bring the healdebuff.

And the discussion as far as i know is about giving the Engineer a tool to do aoe pressure in their aoe pressure tree, not about how you think you will never run a engi on your 6man because he doesnt have a healdebuff.

[7rere7]

Apply the dot of the original target with the explosion to all enemies at 20 ft.
Maybe drop the countdown of the dot 5 seconds.

[Jaycub]

I'll try to better explain my outgoing healdebuff stance here then, but really any utility added to sticky bomb would be a step forward imo.

25% outgoing healdebuff would bring for the 1st time a ranged outgoing healdebuff to the game, unless you count the knight aura which is virtually never used.

Because it's outgoing and applicable at range it's useful in any situation that a healer is present, it doesn't interfere with the SW as it's not of the same type, and it doesn't completely overshadow the IB/WL etc... debuff because it's half effective.

From a 6 man perspective, any group considering picking up an engineer/magus now is mostly looking at relatively low ST damage/burst potential outside of M2 compared to the other RDPS, but safe playstyle and relatively low babysitting need. And are mostly looking at the utulity aoe stagger brings which outside of 6v6 is hard to control. With a 25% outgoing healdebuff that they can feasibly keep up even on 1 healer that could really make up for the lack of useful utility and st damage by making the other teams healing environment worse if they don't invest in countering it with cleanses and other means.

as far as the 40% damage increase goes, that really only comes into play in situations like caledor woods or really static scenarios or situations where you might be for instance defending fort most of nodenwatch. There is also plenty of counterplay here by killing turrets, punts pulls etc... but you never really see it becuase engineer/magus is rarely ever so effective against organized groups that they need to be countered anymore than just killing them straight up.

[Penril]

Why run mDPS if you can stack 25% outgoing/50% inc heal debuffs with Eng and SW? Isn't this a huge buff to rDPS in the Age of rDPS?

Anyway, I understand that those who are for a heal debuff will continue to post about it as long as those who are against one do so. So I will just say "agree to disagree" and wait for feedback on the OP proposals, or other suggestions that are more in line with it.

[porkstar]

My suggestion is the best so far. Also, SH are crap and I'm mentioning something about racial groups. I believe if something "universe altering" is to be done to Sticky Bomb, it should be a re-work to the whole tree so that things synergize and makes the thought of slotting Bugman's Best inconceivable. So in theory, I agree with Jaycub. Grenadier would be a good tree to work with since it's kinda crummy. The above statement could be easily made for many trees of many classes.

[bloodi]

Why run mDPS if you can stack 25% outgoing/50% inc heal debuffs with Eng and SW? Isn't this a huge buff to rDPS in the Age of rDPS?

What?

Now you bring mdps because of the healdebuff only?

Why are we still talking about this in this thread? What the hell is going on?

[7rere7]

My suggestion is the best so far. Also, SH are crap and I'm mentioning something about racial groups. I believe if something "universe altering" is to be done to Sticky Bomb, it should be a re-work to the whole tree so that things synergize and makes the thought of slotting Bugman's Best inconceivable. So in theory, I agree with Jaycub. Grenadier would be a good tree to work with since it's kinda crummy. The above statement could be easily made for many trees of many classes.

The grenadier path was the most common used for engineers before the 40% damage buff.

I got a better one , make it a one hit kill ability or no resses abilty . That would be great for six man's.