[Eng/Magus] Sticky Bombs / Seed of Chaos

[Penril]

Why run mDPS if you can stack 25% outgoing/50% inc heal debuffs with Eng and SW? Isn't this a huge buff to rDPS in the Age of rDPS?

What?

Now you bring mdps because of the healdebuff only?

Why are we still talking about this in this thread? What the hell is going on?

It is quite simple. Some people don't agree with the issue raised by the OP, and explained why while also saying they would prefer a different approach for these 2 skills.

And you are, well, just being yourself.

[bloodi]

It is quite simple. Some people don't agree with the issue raised by the OP, and explained why while also saying they would prefer a different approach for these 2 skills.

And you are, well, just being your usual you.

Actually, by some people you mean jaycub you and tankbearz, who all they did was say "well this wont fix them in 6 mans" which the op never actually intended to do at all, the op intention is merely giving the aoe pressure tree, some aoe pressure outside of popping m2 and praying the healers are all cced or asleep.

So by "moving this discussion forward" they moved it as backwards as you can, forgetting the entire premise of the thread and the first 2 pages and making it into another "lets propose random **** while claiming random stuff we will never back up" that will die in 2 days and nothing will come out of it.

But of course, i am just being myself here.

[porkstar]

My suggestion is the best so far. Also, SH are crap and I'm mentioning something about racial groups. I believe if something "universe altering" is to be done to Sticky Bomb, it should be a re-work to the whole tree so that things synergize and makes the thought of slotting Bugman's Best inconceivable. So in theory, I agree with Jaycub. Grenadier would be a good tree to work with since it's kinda crummy. The above statement could be easily made for many trees of many classes.

The grenadier path was the most common used for engineers before the 40% damage buff.

I got a better one , make it a one hit kill ability or no resses abilty . That would be great for six man's.

I think your idea is terrible.

[Penril]

It is quite simple. Some people don't agree with the issue raised by the OP, and explained why while also saying they would prefer a different approach for these 2 skills.

And you are, well, just being your usual you.

Actually, by some people you mean jaycub you and tankbearz, who all they did was say "well this wont fix them in 6 mans" which the op never actually intended to do at all, the op intention is merely giving the aoe pressure tree, some aoe pressure outside of popping m2 and praying the healers are all cced or asleep.

So by "moving this discussion forward" they moved it as backwards as you can, forgetting the entire premise of the thread and the first 2 pages and making it into another "lets propose random **** while claiming random stuff we will never back up" that will die in 2 days and nothing will come out of it.

But of course, i am just being myself here.

Please quote the part where I say that this won't fix them in 6 mans, or the part where I agree with giving them a heal debuff because it would make them better for 6v6.

[Jaycub]

Spoiler:

So by "moving this discussion forward" they moved it as backwards as you can, forgetting the entire premise of the thread and the first 2 pages and making it into another "lets propose random **** while claiming random stuff we will never back up" that will die in 2 days and nothing will come out of it.

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At this point I think penril needs to say whether or not we are allowed to continue the tanget discussion of adding utility to sticky bomb or not.

[bloodi]

Please quote the part where I say that this won't fix them in 6 mans, or the part where I agree with giving them a heal debuff because it would make them better for 6v6.

Please quote the part where i say you said so, "they" refers to them saying so, thats why is there in "who all they did".

And the problem is not what you said, the problem is how we got to this point at all, how 2 guys agreeing on something makes ok for the entire thread to derail into another discussion altogether.

And in case someone forgot what it was about Karast basically proposed making sticky bomb a debuff that would do aoe damage around the target whenever they recieved damage. Does it need an icd? What range should the aoe be? What damage?

Because the point is to give the worthless aoe tree for engi and magus something so they can perform that role better, thats why he created the thread, if he wanted to make a thread about making Engies better in 6 man, he would, he knows the difference between those 2 topics.

[porkstar]

I stand by my original suggestion and I will take it further. Sticky Bomb will have 50% chance to re-apply on cleanse or when it runs its course (1) time per cast (works as an anti cleansing buffer). Swap Strafing run with Phosphorous Shells in the trees and Bammo, you have a fully functional AoE tree that can also do good direct damage. Bonus; assuming a grenadier takes Bandolier, Throwing Arm, Sticky Bomb, Napalm Grenade, and Phosphorus Shells, a full grenadier couldn't take Bugman's best until RR60.

Two problems: Strafing Run still sux. What to do with the 7-8 mastery points that grenadiers used to use to get Bugman's.

(again I apologize I cannot juxtapose this suggestion with Magus Mastery but if Magus has a problem it could be dealt with as well)

[Penril]

Please quote the part where I say that this won't fix them in 6 mans, or the part where I agree with giving them a heal debuff because it would make them better for 6v6.

Please quote the part where i say you said so, "they" refers to them saying so, thats why is there in "who all they did".

Here:

Actually, by some people you mean jaycub you and tankbearz, who all they did was say "well this wont fix them in 6 mans"

Now let me explain something. Moving a proposal into a discussion can be tricky. I have to decide if the issue raised by the OP is valid. What if I don't agree with his suggestion? (not saying this is the case). Should I decline his proposal? What if, instead, someone raises a issue that to me is completely ridiculous, but his suggestion is quite good and deserves to be discussed? Should I decline that one too?

Once a proposal is moved, the community discusses on it (following the rules, which, surprise! does include 6-man groups). In the case of Jay and Tankbeardz, I see their posts as: "I think there is an issue with those 2 skills, but it is not what the OP thinks it is. Instead, I would..." and that is perfectly valid. You, on the other hand, are just complaining for no valid reason at all, which is why you are now banned from the balance discussion forum.

[Jaycub]

I stand by my original suggestion and I will take it further. Sticky Bomb will have 50% chance to re-apply on cleanse or when it runs its course (1) time per cast (works as an anti cleansing buffer). Swap Strafing run with Phosphorous Shells in the trees and Bammo, you have a fully functional AoE tree that can also do good direct damage. Bonus; assuming a grenadier takes Bandolier, Throwing Arm, Sticky Bomb, Napalm Grenade, and Phosphorus Shells, a full grenadier couldn't take Bugman's best until RR60.

Two problems: Strafing Run still sux. What to do with the 7-8 mastery points that grenadiers used to use to get Bugman's.

(again I apologize I cannot juxtapose this suggestion with Magus Mastery but if Magus has a problem it could be dealt with as well)

I like the idea of moving strafing run, phophorus shells has always been described as out of place and even weak for a 13pt ability and would fit well there, in mind that magus does have a quite powerful ability in the same place on the tree.

This would also open up the future possibility of balance both the magus and engineer 13 pt ST tree abilities at the same time.

Although I don't think abilities can be moved to different trees until the patcher is out?

[Jaycub]

Spoiler:

Thats it, that is the entire argument and debunk of op point, "more damage will do nothing but more hate", great. I am sure that fits the rules

I wasn't setting out to debunk the OP, just stating that engineer/Magus need utility more than anything and this would be a good chance to mirror it to them in the same way AM/Shaman got treated last discussion. Pretty nice of you to cut off the parts of that post explaining my position btw I know for a fact omnislashing is against the rules. And you posts come off as if you have some personal vendetta against me and beardz which I don't even understand, you would get better reception if you were more respectful to people here.