[DoK/WP] Soul Essence/Righteous Fury regeneration

[Tesq]

Don't forget that DoK/Wp has the survival tools in the form of Bubble tactic to be close healer and with care play they can have it up most of the time.This will let you casting free especially when fighting in somewhere between middle and front line.

as told bubble proc on casted heals not melee currently , for cast you need no one set back and interrupting you. If you try to cast front line vs good player you gona be dead especially on destru since pull. pounce, rkd, ,shatter limbs; you do not have any counter exept positioning for this thing on destru side as a dok (kk can kill pet if you dont get pull immidiatly because you are too near). On order the thing is different these 4 stuff are something any wp dont have to worry about.
Also if you are silenced /KD (3 or even 4 sec) you cant cast and so you cant proc bubble.
Even if you would and survive the whole point of spam heal would be rendered useless by the vicinity of heal debuffing tool so this make rather difficult try to play the dok/wp and go in front and say HIT ME!

My dok is geared def chalice and play towards the front (like a medium front liners) so i know how much is a pain do it on destru while is lol mode on order side . The only real pain is a mara pull on wp which a tank can simple taunt for interrupt and you can walk away.

dok /wp dont have the tool to stay front line with out a guard unless that is fixed the rest need to be work around that fact, since the guard on wp/dok in melee mean he is going dps healer (since heal are based on dmg done) he dont need a essence regen tactic since melee heals regen essence so the while discussion in this point is useless.

[vouzou]

as told bubble proc on casted heals not melee currently , for cast you need no one set back and interrupting you. If you try to cast front line vs good player you gona be dead especially on destru since pull. pounce, rkd, ,shatter limbs; you do not have any counter exept positioning for this thing on destru side as a dok (kk can kill pet if you dont get pull immidiatly because you are too near). On order the thing is different these 4 stuff are something any wp dont have to worry about.
Also if you are silenced /KD (3 or even 4 sec) you cant cast and so you cant proc bubble.
Even if you would and survive the whole point of spam heal would be rendered useless by the vicinity of heal debuffing tool so this make rather difficult try to play the dok/wp and go in front and say HIT ME!

My dok is geared def chalice and play towards the front (like a medium front liners) so i know how much is a pain do it on destru while is lol mode on order side . The only real pain is a mara pull on wp which a tank can simple taunt for interrupt and you can walk away.

dok /wp dont have the tool to stay front line with out a guard unless that is fixed the rest need to be work around that fact, since the guard on wp/dok in melee mean he is going dps healer (since heal are based on dmg done) he dont need a essence regen tactic since melee heals regen essence so the while discussion in this point is useless.

I don't say i agree because most of the times in oRvR it is only bombing. Bombing means AOE effects that can hit you eitherway you are front line or middle or backline.
The situation you are discribing it happens on small groups where bombing is not mandatory, so there are 2 different thinks.
Mine dok is build full defence and the only situation that he dies is
1) VS zerg
2) when i am out of SE to heal.
So i can't do anything against zerg but i can make a proposal for fixing my SE regeneration in the form of tactic, which i believe it is the best from the other 2 options for many reasons. Especially it will force you to play more carefully towards middle line, and agrees with the spirit of RoR that DoK/WP are melee healers.
From my point of view Melee healer doesn't nesecerly means i lifetap healer. I agree thats an option for DoK/WP to do that but that one view of the coin. The other is to be close to melee range so you can heal build your recources and so on.
But as you said in oRvR envoriment lifetap is very hard to play. Thats why most prefer pure healing build. But pure healing build has a tactic that can be used sometimes by some players which is not so good atm for both classes. My suggestion was to change it thus removing the 3 secs cooldown and make it give 25 se instead of 35 it gives atm. From theoryhammer it sounds good for some but bad for others. So here is the hard question. Instead of saying it will be good or bad "WHY NOT TEST IT ?"
If test it we will see if it helps or not and we will have something to discuss that won't be theory anymore.
I am not criticising you don't take it wrong. You may have right and i am the wrong here.
But i stronlgy believe that we need to TEST it first and discuss the results second.

Thanks

P.S Sorry for my English

[Tesq]

is not zerg or bomb is aoe in general; be hit mean be set back, in aoe is even more easier to be set back, as i play a def dok i knwo pretty well enough how hard is play in between the line so im well aware of what you try to say but still set back and cast heals dont work well togheter especially if (assuming 1wb vs another 1) if 8 dps are aoe you....thats are 8 hit every GCD how you possibly can heal inside the bomb? i can only thinkg of out of group heal then st heal yourself out a bit and restart group heals. IF any corrdinating group bomb you on healers you are dead 90% of times.

Also no; the problem of the essence regen work in any enviroment not only Orvr it also a sc problem since if you need to group heal after 4 you are out of the game and need to rec ( no healers behaviour like this).
Even if you dont need to spa, only group heals the g-heal of dok/wp is INSIDE the st rotation for heal someone so is still overcost regardless.

hot, st essence heal, st ap heals, cleanse, group heal, you will still mostly use 1 group heal x rotationalso for pop absorb shield.

Is not a zerg problem , essence lash work better in zerg situation as you can better unotized circle a bit and flank enemy hopping they do not parry you. Generally speaking is unreliable because it can be parry and the group heals are essence heavy

[Jinxypie]

How about reducing SE abilities cost for like 10s after using melee skill?

[Sulorie]

In my opinion the SE costs are fine. The question is how good are the tanks in your group as you have to be more in melee range for regen.

[vouzou]

Being in the front lines doesn;t mean you have to be always on fron lines. In a warband enviroment you are hitted most of the times either being in front or in middle or in back.
THe only diference is the amount of dmg you are taking. If you can benefit from that you can heal more.

[Tesq]

In my opinion the SE costs are fine. The question is how good are the tanks in your group as you have to be more in melee range for regen.

so you spam 4 group heals, then melee rec 5 ppl, 4 parry you and you regain only 15 essence, is that fine? why all other healers spam group heals forever while dok/wp need to melee rec with very risk vs few rewards.....(hope someone is not gona bring trasfer essence argument cuz is really bad for a def/wp dok spec not dps under heavy pressure be told to use trasfer essence ...... you can do it sometimes with low pressure not with HIG PRESSURE).


how good are the tanks dosent matter a *** in this thread this is about essence regen be too low or not and the way to improve it.
About tank be good or bad id say how much order real can piss dok while destru can do the same to wp (ista rkd, ista pull, ista pounce+kd vs none on destru side). A tank on order side dont have to do nything for help a wp.... wp came melee rec and go back

[vouzou]

In my opinion the SE costs are fine. The question is how good are the tanks in your group as you have to be more in melee range for regen.

so you spam 4 group heals, then melee rec 5 ppl, 4 parry you and you regain only 15 essence, is that fine? why all other healers spam group heals forever while dok/wp need to melee rec with very risk vs few rewards.....(hope someone is not gona bring trasfer essence argument cuz is really bad for a def/wp dok spec not dps under heavy pressure be told to use trasfer essence ...... you can do it sometimes with low pressure not with HIG PRESSURE).


how good are the tanks dosent matter a *** in this thread this is about essence regen be too low or not and the way to improve it.
About tank be good or bad id say how much order real can piss dok while destru can do the same to wp (ista rkd, ista pull, ista pounce+kd vs none on destru side). A tank on order side dont have to do nything for help a wp.... wp came melee rec and go back

Thats why it is better to get lets say 50 from tactic and 15 from lash then you get out of combat maybe some range hit you might get another 25 or 50 then lash again etc. This will help you a lot!

[Soulview]

This is a different proposal which belongs in a different thread, not here - Penril

sry i think about to make a new one thanks for reminder

[Noiree]

Yes, WP/DOK need a little twitch, but not too much. They're not meant to be a solo healer for a group.

May I introduce another option?

D: Switch one ability from class-ressource-dependecy to AP-dependecy. Either the basic hot or the basic direct heal + hot. Same price.
(Reason is that cross healing sucks your class-dependent ressources dry.)


Regeneration shouldn't reach live-levels again. It was game breaking and far too overpowered (10 from book/chalice + 2 (?) from set bonus ---> grp heal spam).