[Review] [IB] Ancestor's Fury & Oathbound uptime

[bloodi]

Ironbreakers have a plethora of buffs via Oathfriend, however, i would like to focus on two of them, Ancestor´s Fury and Oathfriend. this are arguably the ones you should try to have always up, AF is a single target +str and +10% crit and OF is +ini and +25% parry with a 10 secs uptime and 0 cooldown.

The issue: GCD economy.

The GCD on ror is 1.15 seconds, lets imagine an ideal scenario where A) You have 35 grudge before entering melee range B) You spend said grudge to buff yourself in an ideal manner, that is, Stubborn as stone into AF/OF, spending 3 gcds before you can hit in melee range and the gcd refreshes just when you are able to hit.

For the next 10 seconds you are free to do anything you want without worrying about the buffs, that is 8 GCDs. In those 8 GCDs you are free to do your tank job, that is snaring, armor debuffing, punting, Kding someone, maybe you put your healdebuff on some healer, maybe you even heavy blow someone for that little extra dps, use some of the other buffs like +armor or + toughness or +WS, hell, swapping guard is something you should probably do and it doesnt take a GCD but it does take you some time, which most likely will eat a GCD by itself even if doesnt use it.

That sounds wonderfull, maybe a little tight to use all those tools on those 8 gcds, which is fine, you shouldnt have everything up all the time but lets push it a bit further and see what happens when AF/OF need to be refreshed.

AFter the first 10 seconds, you know have to choose between doing all of that or keeping your buffs up, which reduces your GCDs to do all those things, to 6, that is when you dont have to refresh SaS, that would make it 5, however that only happens every 20 seconds.

And that is the whole issue, a Kobts can and will provide crit and buffs to his whole group passively via auras, will even debuff the enemy, same for the SM, the Stat steal gives you similar values (more stats, less crit) for the whole group while debuffing the enemy one, at no GCD cost. That means they can spend those gcds in actively doing their role, IB cant say the same.

Solution: Raise the duration of AF/OF to 20 seconds.

At first you could make a case for them being out the GCD but i dont think that is a good idea as long as NB exist, it would just trivialize them into a part of the string that i dont have to even think about while i do everything else, that may be fine for other tanks but IB being the tank you just have to push more buttons with makes him a bit more special and interesting, lets keep it that way.

With a 20 secs duration, they would be refreshed along with SaS and will leave you with a loot more room to use everything else IB has, which imo is something that is sorely needed, things like the +thoughness attack are almsot never used because there is just not enough time to put them into your rotation, on top of that, it would put them a bit more on par with the other 2 tanks of order.

[Penril]

I think you meant Oathbound and not Oathfriend.

Moving to Discussions.

[Germane]

Spoiler:

Ohh yeahhh sounds good. xD By the way can the IB get back Morale 3 Absorb Shield for the whole group? That would be cool!

No +1s.

[GodlessCrom]

I like it. GCD economy on IB can get a bit tight, and having to spend at best 2.3 (and 3.0 at worst) out of every 10 seconds refreshing these buffs can get tiresome. Though, of course you dont have to use them, but considering that Oathbound in particular is one of the best buffs you have, its kinda silly not to use them (unless you soloing in which case you probably dont have Oathbound).

Edit: to avoid it being just a +1, I will say this: the buffs dont require a target to hit since they are just casted, and this gives them 200% uptime, i.e. they will essentially never fall off if played correctly since they cant be defended. Would it be worth it makin them into attacks like Inspiring Attack or Guarded Attack? Playing a bit of devils advocate here as I dont necessarily think its required, but something to ponder.

Also one question: does Ancestors Fury stack with Encouraged Aim? Becauae one is a tactic and the other an ability, the should stack correct?

[th3gatekeeper]

I would wholly support this. I only have played IB in tier 1/2 PVP and have played with both of these and it IS annoying, very restrictive, and a large consumer of Grudges which makes it much more limiting to do your primary job of a TANK. I also main a BG and FULLY understand the frustration of the mechanic of both classes - being very clunky and having too much "competition" for your GCDs and your mechanic itself.

This change would slightly reduce grudge consumption, and allow for more options and IMO increase the FUN aspect of the class, but dont be mistaken, this IS a buff to the class itself and frankly, I have always though IB was more potent than a BG in terms of what it can bring to a party as well as individually (I know others might disagree).

Even that said, I would support this change as I dont think IB is overperforming (otherwise you would see it in more warbands and premades, which it isnt unless nobody else is around).

Though I would ask that we keep this in mind when evaluating its mirror - the BG, which I think is also in a similar spot in terms of "role" and is also a class whose "mechanic consumption" (especially 2H) should be looked at as well as I believe its far too reliant on its hate...

[peterthepan3]

Think it may help somewhat to alleviate the clunkiness/complexity vs meh reward of the class, affording a few more GCDs to dedicate into something else (damage, for example).

[Toldavf]

As an Iron Breaker on live I would of loved this. Here though I have to say that what you suggest is to much.

The two buffs in question are the 2 best buffs the iron breaker actually has and both are fantastically strong in their own right in the small scale. I would even go so far as to say that maybe these buffs draw their balance from the fact that they actually take effort to maintain.

Ability and buff usage is always situational, I don't think its right to dumb down a class just so it can do everything at once.

[Eathisword]

In favor of the uptime buff in general, I would add that not only do they take lots of GCD to maintain, but you need to spend even more GCD to mask em with other buffs prior to use, cause if you dont, against not brainless opponents, they'll get shattered non-stop. Which leave you with no time to actually play.

Then, I tend to agree with Toldavf. 20s uptime means that both buff would be up always in every battle. Which is too strong (10% crit and 25% parry with 100% uptime for only 12 mastery points).

Also, a beauty of the class (i.e. when not just buff botting every buff), is to go with the flow of battle. You keep one kind of buff up : Oathbound + defense stuff when you're getting pressured and AF + offense stuff when you try to put the pressure. One keeps your guardee alive in needed time, the other helps deliver burst to score a kill. 2 different situations.

One thing that would be cool, is to have it set somewhat like rune of breaking (well not the same but similar) : when you have the offensive one up, it cancels the defensive one and vice versa. Then having a long uptime would make more sense, could even be 30s each, but not possible to have both running at the same time. Would keep things interesting (choosing your buff smartly) while also kinda being a quality of life adjustment.

But what do I know, I just pugged my life away.

[Penril]

Time to lock.