[Review] [BW/Sorc] Mechanic

[Penril]

The wounds debuff was only a suggestion. This is a brainstorming thread, make other suggestions of your own if you dislike that one.

I like Toldafv's.

[Penril]

First step before messing with it too much can we try guard not reducing backlash dmg 50%

It miiiiiight make a difference for warband fights. Will be completely irrelevant for small scale since BWs are rarely guarded (tanks are out of guard range, pushing the enemy lines, usually guarding a mdps).

[Toldavf]

Mid scale mechanic.
Mechanic goes up to 200. (Or whatever round number you choose 100 would do as well, doesn't really mater)

Normal bonuses up to 100, after that the combustion still applies however the crit and damage bonuses start counting back to 0.

Basically BW becomes a balancing act with the good damage resting in the middle of the mechanic (don't let the fire consume you)

Melt down would have to become a fixed AP costed drop for a fixed amount.

Other abilities could be worked to spend/create mechanic as needed.

First step before messing with it too much can we try guard not reducing backlash dmg 50%

Couldn't hurt but it wouldn't help, backlash damage is inconsequential to a bw with decent healers. Also it's not within the original design brief.

[Zanilos]

First step before messing with it too much can we try guard not reducing backlash dmg 50%

It miiiiiight make a difference for warband fights. Will be completely irrelevant for small scale since BWs are rarely guarded (tanks are out of guard range, pushing the enemy lines, usually guarding a mdps).

But also in small scale, the organised groups rarely fight the organised groups. If your'e worried about the handful of good BWs on the server smashing some solos then who cares? Without the dmg output you struggle againt someone who has decent gear and guard especially now HtL works.

[bloodi]

I still cannot figure why this entire discussion is based around BW/Sorc free casting while being healed.

Are you really going to frame the discussion around that? Because, again, ideal situatiosn should be taken into account but i still dont see anyone explaining why eating 750 unmitigable damage when you cast while under focus its not dangerous at all.

Because, it really is.

[Penril]

But also in small scale, the organised groups rarely fight the organised groups. If your'e worried about the handful of good BWs on the server smashing some solos then who cares? Without the dmg output you struggle againt someone who has decent gear and guard especially now HtL works.

Im not worried about that. I'm worried about classes having a "mechanic" that they never use/look at/care for. Which is why Chosen/KotBS will also be looked at soon, for example ("aura" mechanic ).

Regardless, this thread will run its course for 2 weeks to see if we can come up with a decent proposal, and then (and only then) will we properly discuss that proposal. Which can, in the end, be completely declined ofc.

[Thelen]

Two ideas, probably both equally flawed:

1. Upon hitting 100% mechanic, each instance of backlash increases in damage (much like holding bobble in scenarios) until the Sorc/BW dumps their mechanic pool and resets the damage tics. It doesn't make it dangerous to be at 100% mechanic, but makes it dangerous to not reset often.

This would force BW/Sorc to look for opportunities to reset their mechanic pool so they aren't taking huge backlash tics during a crucial fight. Lots of incentive not to stay at full combustion.

2. Is there a big issue with a scaling incoming damage% increase based on Dark Magic/combustion? I don't know what percentages would be acceptable, but something that makes it very dangerous to stay at 100%, but also doesn't mess with wounds.

[KeanuDracula]

Increase AP cost exponentially the higher the combustion gets. If the AP cost is high enough that will force people to expend combustion/dark magic. Double AP pot will only get you so far... but then a rework of Burnout and Reckless Gathering would be needed or at least a tweak to the existing ability.

I thought of something similar at first. However i believe it's a dead end due to the raw amount of ap the classes have access to.

If you increase the AP cost where at high combustion you are only able to use 2-3? abilities all the AP in the world wont help you to sustain it indefinitely.

[Arbich]

I don´t think you can compare a melee class with auto-attack (slayer/choppa) with a range magic class.

The idea from wargrimnir sounds attractive, but i wouldn´t remove explosion damage and instead even increase it with every futher explosion. Otherwise I can think about situations where you simply don´t care about the wounds debuff.

But what is the goal of the mechanic change?
To build up 100 mechanic, try to kill someone, drop mechanic points, rinse and repeat or to calculate the risks if its worth going high in mechanic points?

And I agree with bloodi that the base damage of all abilities should be increased.

about meltdown/dhar wind i just hope that it wouldn´t be buffed, because what this game definitely not need is more unmitigated damage.

[Aurandilaz]

The wounds stuff sounds way too nasty, possibly leaving the classes in a state of totally gimped whenever other wounds debuffs occur (for example today at keep dropping from 6k wounds to 3k, then add 750 from backlash and poof, almost ded - even worse for BW due to Destro's wounds debuff usually available)

I think the simplest idea would be to change certain abilities to require a cost of DM. Ideally one ability from every tree would have a cost in DM, but good luck finding a balanced way to do that to both classes.

Also possibly, I'd toy with the idea of requiring certain amount of DM pool to be reached before certain ability can be used at all. Again, good luck finding correct balance which abilities to gimp without breaking one class more than the other.

If we keep brainstorming; DM pool could start increasing AP cost of abilities. Or cast times. Or both, with castable stuff requiring more seconds, and insta casts becoming more expensive. Though this would hurt sorc far more than BW, due to lack of Flashfire. Would also maybe entice the classes to use those ancient AP tactics no one now cares about. Ideally for this to work you'd have to give both classes Flashfire. Managing a full pool of Dhar Magic raging through your body would not just cause backlash making you explode whenever you play in pug WB and healers are either DPS or AFKish, but start wearing your AP pool even more down, or just permasilence you in case a Shaman/AM is around.


Tbh, the question is, do you feel that BW/sorc are performing too well in puglife? Because it isn't so, it's sheer masochism to play in pug wb and die about 5-10 times an hour simply by killing yourself. Sometimes in PUG scs same happens. And in organized WB play, sorcs and BWs keep dying left and right, because enemies know their dmg potential and already bring full attention to bringing it down, with a plethora of healdebuffs and occasionally ST focus on the important BW/sorc who is the first to fall once the wiping begins. Maybe 1 in 5 of times we wipe as a WB, my sorc ends up killing itself, whereas a normal dps might last 3-10 seconds longer because no suicide mechanic. Sure, the videos show all the glorious victories, but I have plenty of "lol suicided" again moments on record, would just not upload them with my already slow internet so you can see me kill myself on youtube.
As for "muh 6v6", I would not even bring my sorc to that fight, simply because how easy it is to shut down. Dhar Magic at 100 or not, good enemy healers cleanse all the dots and minor focus is enough to prolong cast times to the effect that you have issues getting damage out. Or maybe I'm just a scrub, and some better BWs/Sorcs know how to always stay out of focus and have free casting, but then again at that point it's the fault of enemy team if they let a sorc/BW have free time casting.