[Review] [BW/Sorc] Mechanic

[th3gatekeeper]

Why make punishing mechanic? Just make them choose to drop mechanic point cos of different benefits. For example I would make something like that:
0-25 combustion = 0% dmg; 50% crit
26-50 combustion = 25%; 40% crit
51-75 combustion = 50% dmg; 30 crit
76-100 combustion = 80% dmg; 0 crit

Ps numbers are totaly random and are listed only to ilustrate the idea of mechanic that u need to manage to be top tier

This doesnt make any sense. There is no mechanic to manage, whatever will offer the most damage net, will be the most desired. The reason crit is so valuable is because BW/Sorcs get +100% crit damage with their mechanic.

So if they instead get 80% more damage, there is no reason to drop down to 0 to get 50% crit instead. They will stay in max. There is no punishment to stay max, there is nothing to "manage".

I feel bad for Penril. Its PAINFULLY obvious people come in here and post without reading ANY of the discussion on the previous pages. Then people posting some of the dumbest comments I have seen like "just increase backlash". This person has not been reading not only the intended GOAL of a rework, but the previous discussions around this as well.

So far the BEST rework that I have seen was the AP increase cost one and REMOVAL of backlash with better spenders. It was detailed I believe 3 pages back in a Wall-O-Text but it was the best.

Here are the issues:
#1 Current mechanic is too painful for any PUG situation (warband or SC or even solo). It necessitates a healer giving you atleast HOTs regularly, if not, you cant stay high mechanic and cant do damage.

#2 To the opposite affect, when you DO have a healer, you can basically IGNORE your mechanic and stay 100 the entire time.

#3 BW/Sorc damage is utter POOP without mechanic.

What @Coma detailed was SOLUTIONS TO ALL THREE PROBLEMS!

#1 REMOVED Backlash. Now BWs can play without a "dedicated healer" or without a healer babysitting them.

#2 Increased AP based on increased mechanic makes staying at 100 too painful to sustain. Thus regardless of healer or not, you CANNOT ignore this, and CANNOT stay at 100 and must "manage" your mechanic. This overall would be seen as a nerf, so to meet Penril's "desired" outcome of both a "nerf and buff" AND to address Problem #3....

#3 Coma's suggestion is to rework a few MASTERY abilities by making them mechanic spenders. So now you dont NEED mechanic to deal good damage IF the spenders are good abilities in their own right - to where you may consider using one without max mechanic and as a way to manage your mechanic.

So at the end of the day we solved all three problems, and we created a mechanic that in the hands of a SKILLED BW, this wont feel like a "nerf" but in the hands of a SCRUB BW, it will feel somewhat punishing compared to the current "get to 100 and spam" playstyle.

Any other solution I have seem, fails to address these three issues AS WELL AS address Penri's desired goals.

SO DO US ALL A FAVOR AND READ BEFORE YOU POST. THANKS!

[Asherdoom]

why instead of penalize wounds or take self damage you dont impose a simple chance to get crit by 1%...then 2% so on staking to max of 15%?

[Serrow]

Good Stuff

I actually like this a lot. A big part of why I'm weary about playing with the mechanic too much is that if it gets toned down or nerfed from where it is without any accompanying changes, BW/Sorc will be totally gimped. If however it can still be a very potent means of 'going all in' so to speak while still retaining respectable damage outside of high DM/Combust, I'd be all about it!

[th3gatekeeper]

why instead of penalize wounds or take self damage you dont impose a simple chance to get crit by 1%...then 2% so on staking to max of 15%?

Easy. Because this doesn't constitute any management or skill or anything penril wanted to accomplish. This would mean a BW or Sorc gets to 100. Stays in 100, and facerolls button mash until focused then drops mechanic. In what way does this accomplish what Penril asked? The goal he wants is to make this mechanic require "management" and skill in managing mechanic. All you did was offer an alternative "con" to backlash without making any changes to managing a mechanic or it requiring skill or being able to ignore it when in a watband.

[Asherdoom]

then what about setting treshold for skills? for example the most potent ones requires an amount of charge to be casted, but the more you accumulate the more you get damage by self debuff crit (pretty much like melee dps like choppa and slayers who must learn to manage enrage no?)

[th3gatekeeper]

then what about setting treshold for skills? for example the most potent ones requires an amount of charge to be casted, but the more you accumulate the more you get damage by self debuff crit (pretty much like melee dps like choppa and slayers who must learn to manage enrage no?)

Main difference is ranged advantage. Slayer and Choppa cannot sit behind a tank wall and can nuke from far away
Slayer and Choppa have to push the frontlines which means their damage intake "uptime" is likely much much higher which necessitates managing a mechanic. Also, frankly, I'm not even a fan of the mechanic but that's another topic.

I may be mistaken but it sounds like you don't have much experience playing a BW or Sorc? With all due respect man, the way you are trying to propose changes doesn't really create management of the mechanic. Maybe it's a language issue, but I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Best case you are advocating for "the most potent ones" to consume mechanic-which is exactly the same thing that @Coma was trying to say. Create good mastery abilities that consume mechanic and thus spend mechanic so if you want to use them, don't stay at 100.

But I think having BW "take more damage" any avenue you do that... from a wounds debuff to actual self damage to "increased chance to be crit" are all not the best avenue to go as it really isn't a "manage mechanic" issue. When you go that route ALL it becomes is a question of " Am I getting focused?" If yes, you drop mechanic. If no, you don't need to drop mechanic. The GOAL here, if I am not mistaken, is to make Sorc and BW have to manage their mechanic REGARDLESS OF BEING ATTACKED OR NOT. Or maybe I misunderstood Penril.

[bctakhy]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

The current mechanic is NOT noticeable in ST spec. Actually, the spec has nothing to do with it; you only notice the mechanic if you are solo/pugging.

Also, as I said, if no one focuses me then Backlash will represent 100% of my inc damage. I don't know where you got that 30% from but it means nothing without giving proper context (who were you fighting, were they able to attack/focus you, were you guarded, was your spec glass cannon/defensive, were you in guard range, etc. etc. etc.).

Wrong. Use dps meter and u will see how in ST / DoT spec u get more self dmg, unless u are with 2 chop fasta choppas in group. AoE spec have 2 channel skill that only hit u 1 time.

2 warnings in 2 consecutive posts. Must be a new record. Next one will get you banished from the BDF.

Perfect sample of what happens when u give power to a kid...

U ask a question and i waste my precius time to answer u with my opinion based on all time i played the game and u give me 2 warning even without read what i post... lol , dont worry, i will not waste my time anymore answering unmature ppl...

We're not interested in your precious time then. User removed from BDF.

- wargrimnir

[Asherdoom]

Well i got a sorcerer 40 and dropped it because lack any survival cd vs melee and especially when i was 100 at charge i was milling myself. Your point is correct i assume. The mechanic is simple:more energy means more dmg output. To rework that stuff you musto touch the nerve of the class meaning all bw and sorc wish to stay at 100 charg e as much as possible due to crazy amount of bonus dmg. I agree removing self damage is a good starting point. Maybe you can either give miscast chance when fuly charged?

[th3gatekeeper]

Well i got a sorcerer 40 and dropped it because lack any survival cd vs melee and especially when i was 100 at charge i was milling myself. Your point is correct i assume. The mechanic is simple:more energy means more dmg output. To rework that stuff you musto touch the nerve of the class meaning all bw and sorc wish to stay at 100 charg e as much as possible due to crazy amount of bonus dmg. I agree removing self damage is a good starting point. Maybe you can either give miscast chance when fuly charged?

Yeah a "mis-cast" isnt a horrible idea. So here is ultimately the issues.

- You have to give a reason to NOT stay at max mechanic, either a positive one (like a buff or spender that is good) or a negative one (a punishment that makes it too hard to stay at max mechanic too long).

- If all we do is give a BIGGER "negative" to max mechanic, this is a nerf to the class and it also doesnt give a reason to NOT be at max mechanic. So take increased INCOMING crit chance, or a miscast or wounds debuff. None of these constitute "management" of the mechanic. At the end of the day, IF these were implemented, how will a Sorc or BW achieve maximum results? By being at max mechanic.... That didnt change with many other suggestion...

So what we are looking for, is a way to achieve maximum results WITHOUT "staying in max mechanic". In order to do this, we need to BOTH buff and nerf something about the BW/Sorc.

This is where I think BUFFING Mastery abilities - to be spenders. While at the same time NERFING "100 Mechanic" by making all abilities have increased AP. This has the added benefit of removing self-damage which IMO is just kinda stupid...

Any other solution needs to do the same. NERF "staying at 100 mechanic" and BUFFING something else about the BW - when he uses his mechanic skillfully.

[Zaxxond]

I propose to keep the mechanic as is. It's working as intended. The opinion of the balance moderator (Who I respect and think is a great player) is that there's not a big enough penalty when you stay at 100 c/dm. It's fair to say that there's not a big enough penalty, but it is also fair to say that the skill level of the party you run with really determines how punishing the mechanic is.

BW/Sorcs have a huge trade off. You die fast, but can do major DPS. The mechanic, as well as class attributes solidifies the risk/reward of playing this class.

I like the theory crafting going on, some interesting ideas and concepts have been presented. I haven't seen one yet though that isn't a nerf/and or buff to the class. And that is the concern for the BW/Sorcs. Whatever change happens, it will change the play style for better or worse until tested.

Zaxxy