[Review] [Chosen] Oppression

[Tesq]

Problems:
1-heavy (double) weakness for being a panic button
A-requrie to hit
B-can be shattered (only armor increase component or only dmg reduction component or "both")

2-dont reach is aim as panic button because
A- long CD (so if it can be either miss or removed make it not reliable)
B-not in line in value with all the other kobs/IB dmg reduction skills: vigilance give 15%+ every 10 sec of CD which is 50%for 10 sec on 30 sec CD while Ib is 15% pasive on block.

discussion:
the skill is both high in mastery (13 pt) and dont allow you to take due build restrictions either rending blade or tzeench reflection which is more reliable and it also have an in built cc effect (even more reliable now after avoidances changes).
Atm the skill provide 15% of dmg reduction for 10 sec on 20 CD (50% update time), while the armor buff have a 100% update time

Solution:
1-the skill should be either made
A- requrie to hit but both component became buff type (so no logner removeable) or
B-self buff (no requrei to hit) but remain removeable (as vigilance)

2-the dmg reduction is 7,5% avarange over 20 sec CD(every 10 sec ) which is the lowest of all dmg reduction in game it should be then either
A-duration for the dmg reduction component buff increase to 20 sec (so avarange is 15% every 10 sec as oither tanks) or
B-dmg reduction increase to 20 % but kept to 10 sec (still 15% avarange over 10 sec CD)

PRO:
-solutions are in line with other tank tools
-it will still have a weakness but not a double weakness

Preference for solution:
1-A (like SM crushing advance it will requrie to hit)
2-A (more in line with IB mitigation overtime)

[Penril]

Moving to Discussions.

[Osred]

Edit: Already mentioned.

[Tesq]

re read what i wrote idk if i was clear enough so i gona specify, i suggested that skill should get 2 different fix alltogheter so one for problem numeber 1 AND one for problem number 2, i know my grammaer is not exeptional.....

[lefze]

The skills is fine, and the class is more than fine. In theory you can ALWAYS land the skill on someones back, making it hit 100% of the time. Let's say you are guarding a sorc, have the sorc slot close quarters and spam doombolt so you are always in melee range, problem solved. So I say that the skill can be hard to land is not an issue at all.

A lot of other even more crucial skills can also be shattered for counterplay (which you have personally ignored/downplayed in other discussions btw), so I don't see why this is such a huge deal for chosen?

So that's my 100% unpractical, theoretical and uneducated opinion based on next to no time spent ingame on chosen on issue 1A and 1B. When it comes to issue 2A and 2B, 15% damage reduction on a 50% uptime is in no way bad. As the IB one takes up a tactic slot, I don't see an issue here, Vigilance is arguably much better though, as burst is the name of the game and a 50% reduction is much better than 15%. But here too the shatter comes in to play, a shatter on vigilance is so much more punishing than a shatter on oppression due to the cooldowns and affects the average % of mitigation to cooldown ratio you are talking about pretty drastically.

All in all I see no reason at all to buff the class as it is performing admirably and the examples of it being used are too numerous to be listed, but if anything solution 2B might have been acceptable if a change had to be made. But having no real experience playing the class, for all I know the class is weak as **** and needs a huge buff, who knows.

[Atropik]

Vigilance is arguably much better though, as burst is the name of the game and a 50% reduction is much better than 15%. But here too the shatter comes in to play, a shatter on vigilance is so much more punishing than a shatter on oppression due to the cooldowns and affects the average % of mitigation to cooldown ratio you are talking about pretty drastically.

With all the respect, shatter on vigilance is not an argument here, cause every toon who played kotbs more than once knows how to avoid this.

[Tesq]

@leftze

1-not all situation are small scale, and is in those situation where you need a panic button, in those situatiom you may get locked in combat with tanks , snare and focused, hold the line etc especially now that you cant turn anymore while kd-ed, focus are fierce. It cant also be used as vigilance to escape rdps focus as you need to be in melee to uae it.

In all those situation you have a double risk for not really double the rewards. Shatter ench can work on both effect and on the other similar tanks armor buff are separated from dmg reduction so fail one you still have armor. Plus Even self cast or spamable as in IB and kobs case. So you always have 1 up.

2-your analysis of dmg reduction on other tanks is incorrect,:

kobs have a 16,6 reduction every 10 sec cd
Ib is 15% reduction 100% of the time
Chosen is 7.5% every 10 sec.

This explain why kobs have a dmg reduction component which anyway hold very few meaning.
Due vigilance having an high cd kobs will use it in situation where there is no need to dps and of course overvalue aside a 50% dmg reduction on demand is way better than any passive dmg reduction because when the CC chain on you is over there is no need anymore for the panic buttom or anyway burst even in rvr always cames for a short period of time if the skill is not reliable when you want there idk where is suppoae to be.
Koba not even slot the vigilance tactic as is not required on the slight.

Also kobs armor increase is a buff type so uncleanseable plus oppression also require to block/parry and after a kd/disarm you cant use it immidiatly as it would a kobs with vigilance.

Of all 3 is the only one which require to hit
Of all 3 is the only one which have a value less than 15%
Of all 3 is the only class which have an armor buff with a so higer cd and binded to another effect (kobs not really since it have ap instead full duration but a tactic just make it full again and kobs just gain an ap tactic free in return plus armor increase is still a buff type. So still better than chosen

So ap tactic and armor buff uncleanseable......

Cleary kobs and ib are more reliable , as you said game is full of unpredicable skills, well panic buttons suppose not to some extent because what the point of a tank panic buttom. If it' not reliable??? Small weaknea are left to not make anything unkillable but they need to be small not heavy and doubled....

Kobs/ib one are not unpredicable at all. Instead... Chosen one would still be even after being double fixed this way/u]

Chosen panic button require too many things as said above tzeench reflection is way better atm:....

3- even shatter talk is in favour of kobs cuz obs may loose dmg reduction but not ALSO armor buff plus kobs can screen it better with shield of the sun for default because cd match, chosen would require slot a tactic just for that,

furthermore

Ib have easier activation cuz passive
Kobs is easy too due being on demand
Chosen have the worst activation, require block/parry, need hit after 5 sec.

It's basically an ib very bad version currently...

Moreovee focus heals also help, as healers hot pre vigilance gona help screen it easier then a chosen.because vigilance will be used for last in most situation due these skills being kind of reaction skills the shatter will hit first those hots
Kobs is just the most classic one wow style.in this sense.

Fix both issue will still leave it unpredicable to some extent; plus the max dmg reduction remain the same , extend the duration not gona make you harder the best dmg refuction is still 15%, it will just make easier you are under the buff in the moment the focus actually came, make worth have a dmg reduction....

The balance i see between vigilance and oppression is that vigilance will refuce all the dmg togheter while oppression will work underground on pre focuss thing. Both with oppression fix would hold some strong point.and being more even.

[lefze]

Spoiler:

At this point I'm gonna suggest you take a look at the bdf rules. Pretty sure it's stated in there that arguments about mirrors having something your class doesn't are NOT RELEVANT. Sure vigilance is in fact a panic button, does that mean oppression with a 50% uptime should be? Should all abities have the same exact power when measured over time, or is it enough that they function well for the amount they last when combined with the rest of the kit?

Can you honestly say oppression is lacking as it is now, a good mitigation tool that is gonna be up in the majority of every engagement? Not only that, but the class is incredible as it is, oppression is only a bonus, some extra defensive power sprinkled on top of a solid kit.

But again, I have absolutely no place questioning anything related to chosen as I don't actively play a conpetitive one, hope you enjoyed having to argue the points of someone who has no clue. Oh, and the fact that you mean SW can deal with all the **** you mentioned in 1 in melee range but a chosen can't Is incredible.

I know what you are doing.

[Tesq]

I know bdf rules you are the one who dragged.me into evaluate other dmg reduction things plus how can you consider a skill or not good if you don't comparimg it a bit to similar things.
Here we are talking about stuff that is mastery point consuming or slot consuming, you remove 1 you must then have something more or less on par. Currently oppression isn't.
I never asked for mirror to other tanks panic button in fact i only used the value for have starting evaluatiom while most of problem came from the skill base design itself.
Yes i belive there is a worst thing about the skill and it's the require to hit component because you cant do that all the time especially vs tank wall circle the enemy.

Ib is passive,
kobs is self cast,
chosen will require hit...

I belive in have different thing on every tank so im trying to fix what we have and make it more a quality life change than a buff


But if it have to hit when it does bloody hell it should stay xD

I will still consider kobs, ib ones stronger ; kobs especially under focus is probably the best panic button in game togheter with wods, but i never asked for that, chosen can slot more situational tools in addition. So you at least have diff builds options and evrything require spec deeply right know. Just 13 pt felt not right anymore with last changes to avoidance.
It really was alredy borderiine in live, here with all the change especially new stats contribution it really felt all those multiple weakneas.

[Panzerkasper]

I feel like Oppression should be getting reworked into a Panic button not necessarily only for yourself, but for the group or single party member. This is something the chosen truely lacks, since CS and DfV were thrown into the garbage can.

A simple adjustement to the reduction/duration/etc would still not want me to spec for it, honestly.
But if i had to choose, i think the same as you Tesq:

Preference for solution:
1-A (like SM crushing advance it will requrie to hit)
2-A (more in line with IB mitigation overtime)

PS: The butthurt is real