[Review] [Chosen] Oppression

[Tesq]

Wait, how is the BG version better? It's not a flat 45% decrease man, if you have 10% chance to get crit the BG buff leaves you at 5.5% for example, making it a 4.5% decrease. The only cases where the BG one is better is if your buddy doesn't give a rats ass about inc crit%, and then most likely has no initiative leaving him with massive inc crit numbers regardless. Wile your change more or less enable a whole frontline to spec comfortably for 5-7% inc crit and let you reduce that to 0, or spec into negatives making your buff WAY better than BGs.

Edit: What crom said.

How about the part with the also stacking armor buff?

Compared to (proposed) 100% uptime 15% damage reduction? I say double the armor buff.

-FOF buff both tank and dark protector, with 990 stacking armor + crit reduction which work well vs currently stacking ini debuff on order side. And still there is crush the weak (25% crit reduction)

-Oppression will work only on chosen for armor buff (which dont stack of course) and dmg reduction. the only thing that do for suppoert is lowering a 5%-7% crit chance in a small radious, so even your same group member cant benefith if they are hit from something out of chosen range. The old component of the skill will jsut get fix the new one is to provide group support

even if what you wrote where the case, BG in place of dmg reeduction have a toughness tactic which buff it for 45%, that is the coevalent of the 15% dmg reduction, the stacking armor eff on the bg is a surpluss. on my chosen the difference between pot armor buff and oppression armor buff component give me 12% armor more. Bg stack entirely which mean more than double the value even 30%. You are jsut trying to derail the thread.

[lefze]

How about the part with the also stacking armor buff?

Compared to (proposed) 100% uptime 15% damage reduction? I say double the armor buff.

-FOF buff both tank and dakr protector, with 990 stacking armor + crit reduction which work well vs currently stacking ini debuff on order side .
-Oppression will work only on chosen for armor buff (which dont stack of course) and dmg reduction. the onyl thing that do for suppoert is lowering a 5%-7% crit chance in a small radious, so even your same group member cant benefith if theya re hti from rdps etc.

The armor is definetly a good buff, but you are missing the point. Right now when comparing to oppression, it's great. On the other hand you are proposing a change to make oppression have TWICE aka 100% uptime when comparing to FoF, and 15% damage reduction is far from insignificant, works against ALL classes, and even against physical classes is going to outperform the armor buff in many cases.

Which stacking ini debuffs are you referring to? And that small radius is not a good argument. If your rdps can survive without a guard, the pressure is low enough for the armor debuff to most likely not be on said rdps.

[Tesq]

Compared to (proposed) 100% uptime 15% damage reduction? I say double the armor buff.

-FOF buff both tank and dakr protector, with 990 stacking armor + crit reduction which work well vs currently stacking ini debuff on order side .
-Oppression will work only on chosen for armor buff (which dont stack of course) and dmg reduction. the onyl thing that do for suppoert is lowering a 5%-7% crit chance in a small radious, so even your same group member cant benefith if theya re hti from rdps etc.

The armor is definetly a good buff, but you are missing the point. Right now when comparing to oppression, it's great. On the other hand you are proposing a change to make oppression have TWICE aka 100% uptime when comparing to FoF, and 15% damage reduction is far from insignificant, works against ALL classes, and even against physical classes is going to outperform the armor buff in many cases.

Which stacking ini debuffs are you referring to? And that small radius is not a good argument. If your rdps can survive without a guard, the pressure is low enough for the armor debuff to most likely not be on said rdps.

no, you're wrong oppression as SKILL alredy have 100% update time

armor buff component alredy ahve 100% update time
dmg redution have a 50% update time--->i wana fix this

bg toughness tactic boost for 45% work vs all the classes aswell... not the point here tought...
again, crush the weak is better, oppression is personal for the chosen you are just derailing the thread

[GodlessCrom]

Shadow Warrior five piece conqueror has an ini debuff proc, and they have a tactic called Wrist Slash thay makes one of their melee abilites debuff ini. They stack now (apparently did on live). Not very many melee shadow warriors out there doing anything but solo roam, but I suppose it could become a thing. Believe this is what Tesq refers to with crit stacking (something destro can do too, btw. BO stat steal plus BG Crimson Death plus Marauder with Deeply Impaled. Does anyone do it? Probably not, but its possible.)

[Tesq]

Shadow Warrior five piece conqueror has an ini debuff proc, and they have a tactic called Wrist Slash thay makes one of their melee abilites debuff ini. They stack now (apparently did on live). Not very many melee shadow warriors out there doing anything but solo roam, but I suppose it could become a thing. Believe this is what Tesq refers to with crit stacking (something destro can do too, btw. BO stat steal plus BG Crimson Death plus Marauder with Deeply Impaled. Does anyone do it? Probably not, but its possible.)

bo =sm stat steal
mara is st/sw is group wide
bg = kobs one (even if kobs one is better...)

BG also have crush the weak which overwirte and is >>>> than oppression change (25% vs 5-7%)

also kobs/bg crit increase is 10% , chosen is more like 5% or 7%, in case of 5% is half.....

[lefze]

The armor buff is not an issue at all Tesq, I don't give a rats ass about it. The damage reduction is obviously the issue.

@Crom They DO NOT stack at the moment!

Edit: fixed typo

[GodlessCrom]

Torque said they were going to be patched to stack. Dunno when.

@Tesq: just saying, it can be done. Its not an Order only thing. Destro crit stack is higher on single target though. By 2%, but still.

[Tesq]

Torque said they were going to be patched to stack. Dunno when.

@Tesq: just saying, it can be done. Its not an Order only thing. Destro crit stack is higher on single target though. By 2%, but still.

i know in st is pretty even but each thing is suppose to counter it's type of opposite, this was aimed to counter group wide crit stack not ST crit stack, anyway IB solo can crit debuff chance to be crit for 20% with kneecaper

even with mara 10% debuff and bg 10% this is still 20% vs 20% of crit reduction from IB

kobs,ib , sw is 27% vs 25% of crush the weak from BG

both these lines present a small scale situation where you ST focus , in bigger scale situation where is AOE spam

kobs,ib,sw = 27% vs none on destru aoe debuff/ or realistically kobs+sw = 17% vs none on other side
BG =10% vs none on order side

Idk if you are also counting mara "feeding on fear" and WE crit tactic put those are class related tactics. they are not buff/debuff for group member and work as auto attack speed increase on order dps such slayer,wh,wl. ( and even not consideirn that but only crit increase and crit reduction if you ad s+b this is another -25% which counter any possible WE/mara personal crit increase ; so it's even in small scale (in reality 2-5% in stack/reduction in advantage for order) and at loss for destru in rvr for 7%)

From those % above my crit debuff is in line to counter just that (in fact note i said max 7% not 10% and even in a small radius).
Exept radius argument x crit % , 7% is a number you can pick if you want a % counter to sw crit buff, if you prefer the offensive should always win approach 5% is the way to go; less than 5% it get just lame.

[Tesq]

@penril due recent chosen changes should i change the proposal again =?

(you know too much crit handling on 1 class)

[Toldavf]

Chosen doesn't lack mitigation. While 15% off of everything with a potential 100% up time sounds nice, it seems like over kill to me.