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[Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury

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AxelF
Posts: 219

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#31 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm

The CD increase from the mid mastery tree is almost entirely useless though - a tactic to increase CD by 5 seconds for next 5 seconds on using a skill that knocks down an opponent for 3 seconds. First two GCDs after getting up from a KD are likely to be punt/KB (fight will probably be over before immunity wears off) and pot/other long CD 'oh ****' skill, so it's worthless.

Yes apparently it also applies the CD increase if they're immune to KD but still not really worth taking given the short duration (next 5 seconds only), the fact that it takes a tactic slot on a class that already has a lot of good tactics, and is on a skill that requires block/parry (almost never a problem, but you can bet your ass that the one time you really need it, probably v a healer, it won't be available..). Plus it requires a shield, would nice to have a CD increaser in the left (dps/2H call it what you will) tree.

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Dankmeme
Posts: 48

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#32 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:14 am

AxelF wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm The CD increase from the mid mastery tree is almost entirely useless though - a tactic to increase CD by 5 seconds for next 5 seconds on using a skill that knocks down an opponent for 3 seconds. First two GCDs after getting up from a KD are likely to be punt/KB (fight will probably be over before immunity wears off) and pot/other long CD 'oh ****' skill, so it's worthless.

Yes apparently it also applies the CD increase if they're immune to KD but still not really worth taking given the short duration (next 5 seconds only), the fact that it takes a tactic slot on a class that already has a lot of good tactics, and is on a skill that requires block/parry (almost never a problem, but you can bet your ass that the one time you really need it, probably v a healer, it won't be available..). Plus it requires a shield, would nice to have a CD increaser in the left (dps/2H call it what you will) tree.
This isnt the thread for this

AxelF
Posts: 219

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#33 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:10 am

No, just highlighting that a CD increaser in left tree would be neither unwelcome nor redundant...

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#34 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:09 am

A CD increaser could be a good change, but would necessitate increasing the CD - lowering overall dps. Doesn't seem justified, given Vengeance = dps.
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AxelF
Posts: 219

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#35 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 am

To be honest I think Volgo's suggestion of turning it from a channel into a 3s DoT is the best option, simple (relatively!) to implement, keeps with the theme/feel of IB dps and would make it worth taking.

Ideally the crit bonus also needs to stack with AF given that it applies only to this one ability.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#36 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 am

AxelF wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 am To be honest I think Volgo's suggestion of turning it from a channel into a 3s DoT is the best option, simple (relatively!) to implement, keeps with the theme/feel of IB dps and would make it worth taking.

Ideally the crit bonus also needs to stack with AF given that it applies only to this one ability.
there is alredy a skil that work that way (heavy blow) and any tanks have a channeling, is a core feature of every tank; strip it would do no good it will results in jsut nerf tank and it would be hen in need afterward to be reintroduced somehow. Fix it to work as a channeling is the best option.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#37 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:23 am

GBF should hit 6 times not 5 (0s, 0.6s, 1.2s, 1.8s, 2.4s, 3.0s).

Source WHOLAOR_Guide.pdf (cutouts) a bit outdated and flaky but still the only real written source I can find on GBF swing times.

Fix that first please.

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Same as Chosen Relentless
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+20% crits for a total of +35% (~55%-ish with gear + rr) is doable on top of the +10% 2h.''

It unlocks possibly the highest burst a 2h IB (any tank?) can output over 5s (AA, Cave-win (dot 5s), Heavy Blow (hit + dot 3s), GBF-channel (3s, 6hits), queued AA). Not sure if dots gets recalced to benefit from the 20% extra crits tho.



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Spoiler:
Ether Dance 5 times (0s, 0.75s, 1.5s, 2.25s, 3.0s)
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THC started out with 1 hit per second (or 4hits, 0, 1, 2, 3) by the same source. Obviously changed to per 0,8s as per tooltip to match SM (0,75 rounded is 0,8)
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BG would by the same logic (tooltip per 0.5s) hit 7 times (0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0). Knight no clue really as they were added late and tooltip is a bit vague.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Smellybelly
Posts: 298

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#38 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Torquemadra wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:56 pm adding an extra hit is easy in fact done, changed interval to 600ms
So the skill got changed now? :D Is it "good enough" like this, to actually spec for i mean?
Maybe get some experienced players to try this out?

EDIT: My bad, i just saw the patchnotes of today. Still, another hit makes it worthwhile?

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Eathisword
Posts: 808

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#39 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:38 pm

Aight, just tried it for an hour or so. It feels good. You can get good 400-500 crits on 4-5 of the 6 hits on squish which makes it pretty bursty. (Best was 6 crit for a whopping 2900 damage just for GBF on a double armor debuffed zealot, time stamp was about 5k damage in 4s with Binding grudge, Cave-in and Heavy Blow rolling and finishing it all with a 1k Earthshatter. So when the stars align, its brutal).

Is it good enough to forgo the brotherhood stuff or Oathbound. Probably yes if you are going for best burst. Its definitely not good enough to forgo the 25% parry and AoE snare for group play though.

Its not amazing good. But its gooder. I would spec it for fun loldps now. Before it was not worth it even for that.
Farfadet, RR72 shaman
Volgograd, RR80 IB
Video thread here.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#40 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:57 pm

Eathisword wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:38 pm Aight, just tried it for an hour or so. It feels good. You can get good 400-500 crits on 4-5 of the 6 hits on squish which makes it pretty bursty. (Best was 6 crit for a whopping 2900 damage just for GBF on a double armor debuffed zealot, time stamp was about 5k damage in 4s with Binding grudge, Cave-in and Heavy Blow rolling and finishing it all with a 1k Earthshatter. So when the stars align, its brutal).

Is it good enough to forgo the brotherhood stuff or Oathbound. Probably yes if you are going for best burst. Its definitely not good enough to forgo the 25% parry and AoE snare for group play though.

Its not amazing good. But its gooder. I would spec it for fun loldps now. Before it was not worth it even for that.
that's why i said make 7 hits as BG is just make sense they have the same number of hits.

the socondary component is the final piece of balance not the first so hate build/crit increase dosent matter how they are balanced, but the base of the skills aka hits should be the same in a way or into another one.
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