Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD

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footpatrol2
Posts: 999

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable [Close Date Apr 21]

Post#51 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:12 pm

@Renork
If you are saying that DW is a must have tactic for a heavy havoc tree build then no extra love needs to be thrown at this tactic.

I also didn't say the class doesn't need it. I said the tactic doesn't need to change.

My viewpoint is from spec specific premade group compositions, where the spec of each group member is controlled along with tactic, tali, renown and gear selection.

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Renork
Posts: 1126

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable [Close Date Apr 21]

Post#52 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:39 pm

footpatrol2 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:12 pm
@Renork
If you saying that DW is a must have tactic for a heavy havoc tree build then no extra love needs to be thrown at this tactic.

My viewpoint is from spec specific premade group compositions, where the spec of each individual is controlled along with tactic, tali and gear selection.
No one runs magi in premades (outside of rifting in defense). Anyone can be successful running a group of 6 or 24 and stomping uncoordinated pugs over, that in itself doesn't dictate how a class performs or how good/competent you are. The class has mobility issues that make it undesirable in a competitive environment, but that's a different topic for another day.

If you are playing havoc OR change you will absolutely slot this tactic (or should) but at the present time the disrupt rates make it highly undesirable and replaceable. The suggestion presented doesn't completely fix the issue, but alleviates the current challenge of getting disrupted. Again, long CD, cleanseable, tactic slot required, disrupt rates have been presented as the problems and simply saying "lol class doesn't need it" is not a strong argument.

Your viewpoint provides zero explanation on why lowering the CD to 10 seconds breaks the class. Do you think that 100 magi will suddenly appear because of this change and alt tab spam WS? please.

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peterthepan3
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Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable [Close Date Apr 21]

Post#53 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:35 pm

Need to see more substantial arguments and less to-and-fro blanket statements that don't actually offer anything.
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Darosh
Posts: 1090

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable [Close Date Apr 21]

Post#54 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:21 pm

Renork wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:39 pm
If you are playing havoc OR change you will absolutely slot this tactic (or should) but at the present time the disrupt rates make it highly undesirable and replaceable. The suggestion presented doesn't completely fix the issue, but alleviates the current challenge of getting disrupted.
All things considered one could reach a compromise by mirroring a 'Pierce Defenses'-esque trait onto it and make it solely account for disrupt (and maybe only for [certain] Magus skills to avoid overkilling it, while it surely would be fancy for a Magus/Sorc setup) and lowering the CD to 15s instead of 10s - provided you play with a comp that runs CF (and communication) you'd still sit at 10s, have a discount strikethrough with which reapplication would not necessarily be guranteed, but made easier.

That'd tackle (certainly not fix) dot spec Magus issues, too, wouldn't it?

Long story short: pug Magus gets a little bone, Magus in group gets a steak ~ he still has to work for.
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catholicism198
Posts: 593

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable [Close Date Apr 21]

Post#55 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm

Darosh wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:21 pm

All things considered one could reach a compromise by mirroring a 'Pierce Defenses'-esque trait onto it and make it solely account for disrupt (and maybe only for [certain] Magus skills to avoid overkilling it, while it surely would be fancy for a Magus/Sorc setup) and lowering the CD to 15s instead of 10s - provided you play with a comp that runs CF (and communication) you'd still sit at 10s, have a discount strikethrough with which reapplication would not necessarily be guranteed, but made easier.

That'd tackle (certainly not fix) dot spec Magus issues, too, wouldn't it?

Long story short: pug Magus gets a little bone, Magus in group gets a steak ~ he still has to work for.
This was something I was going to propose a while ago, but I decided to shelve it because I do not know what the devs can and cannot...and then there was that incident...and then I saw this one pop up.
That would certainly make the Magus more desirable for small groups and warbands than just making Daemonic Withering undefendable.

The lack similar tactic is just another "wtf was mythic thinking."
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dansari
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Posts: 1996

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#56 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:42 pm

Let's not derail the topic. I think in this case, because the tactics are mirrored and because there is enough discussion about the pros and cons of the solutions provided, we should continue talking about those. If you'd like to explore a similar Pierce Defenses tactic for disrupt, you can make a new proposal.
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Posts: 41

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#57 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:20 am

Yeah I’m down for solution 2; keep it on a 10sec cd, and have it still behave as normal. OR cut it’s duration in half, in which case you’d also have to lower the damage otherwise you’d be getting 1k+ Crit ticks.
This would be a good change, too many times I’m stuck spamming gunblast in critical situations to drop a target because I don’t have my dots up. It’s annoying enough being useless on the move, and having to wait 40 secs immobilised for damage mechanic to build up. It’s a slow class.
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Tesq
Posts: 4127

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#58 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:59 am

solution 2 justy wont cut for magus....it will be a buff to engi and still a lacklsuter thing for his coutnerpart

how many dodge buff stuff there are exept hold the line in whole destruction? -->zero
how many disrupt order side?

-empire 10% tactic(on 4 diff classes)
-SM 10/20 + 5 disruopt increase (skill+ tactic)
-WL 10% disrupt increase (tactic)
-enemy willp on healers >>>>> ini on the resto of ppl

A) even if you give magus a 10 sec CD dot it will fail the application 60% of the time roughtly since it have 10 ppl with increased chance to disrupt while there are 0 on for dodge on destru side.

B) if you give it to engi copypasted it will be apply it 90% of time roughtly

***with for both of em considered a fair ammount of striketrought from gear.

magus have to aswell spec an undefeatable tactic for just 1 skill while engi can potentialyl make ALL his skill easier to land. Solution 2 wont just cut for magus the situation will barely change and will be op for engi.

Solution 1 is the way that will help both classes fairly.
Last edited by Tesq on Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bozzax
Posts: 1828

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#59 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:53 am

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E: didn’t include HTL
Spoiler:
E2: I still believe the +15% inc damage is a poor mans hdebuff and ideally should be made available as an option for 6man play by lowering CD to 5s

E3: not sure why Sorcs lacks hdebuff tho
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Tesq
Posts: 4127

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#60 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:12 pm

Bozzax wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:53 am
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E: didn’t include HTL
those morales will never see the light of the day(some dosent even matter regard doge/disrupt), whitering soul it's getting talked here for this reason and 1 chosen tactic on destru side on a melee class for rdp class considering you have to be near to make guard usefull rather hardly justify the discrepancy between solutions 1-2 which total advantage engi.
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