[Review] [KOTBS] Glory Tree

[tionblack]

That will change basically nothing when you are focus or you take dmg the aura will proc with any defense. After last avoidance changes it also just need a dot, you dodge/ disrupt every 3-4 sec and is always active. Hard be the otherway, if you get dot/attack it will inevitabily proc if not every 3 sec ...every 4 sec max. Since you only need the heal buff while being attacked this will change nothing and will just waste server memory activating and deactivating the proc.

It is completly fine i think, you struggle just because you are jealous.

[dansari]

That's my point. The tactic isn't overperforming, the reason you apparently don't like it is because

Focused Mending is a very powerful zero effort tactic

Spoiler:

And by that logic, I'm sure next we're going to look at two of the most broken survivability tactics in the game: Run Away and Whazzat Behind You given that the only effort you exert to use them is simply to be playing the game.

The tactic has not been shown to be overperforming, so if you want to make a change the only logical solution is to A) make it so that it procs on defense, and/or B) move the tactic up the tree to make it take more investment. Reducing the mechanic is a frivolous nerf unless you can point to instances where groups with knights running FM outperform, to a substantial degree, groups that do not.

[Bozzax]

@bozzax: Me too. Though a lot of people used to think CS was the counterweight to Order's crit stacking (gone too).

Possibly...

Morale on defend tactic <=> Crit on defend tactic (heal and attack)
Crippling Strikes <=> Focused Mending tactic

Spoiler:

(SW one imo was offset w sorc IG even tho it was better @15% (mostly due to heal crits))

Or the other way arround. Point is only FM remains untouched and therefore becomes a realm imbalance. Personally I’d much rather see changes to CS be undone then FM to be shafted.

From a realm vs realm perspective I believe both the realms ideally should have access to same incoming heal buffs and pref on multiple classes to weaken meta stups.

The root problem imo with CS, DT, DV, FM buffs/debuffs is that they mostly were exclusive to one class making those classes mandatory in groups (most other classes of same archetype lack similar unique buffs/debuffs)

[szejoza]

The first type which also stack (additive 25+15=40% ) with tactic of the same type(from runy, best healer on order side) is OP, there is even need to tell why? heal debuff is 50% , heal buff is 40%, 10% remaining heal debuff is horrendous.

Are you sure it's works that way? Isn't it working like inc healdebuffed target gets heal for 400 instead of 800 (50% heal debuff) but with FM tactic he would get 460heal and with all healbuffs heal for 560 rather than 720 according to your theory?

[peterthepan3]

That will change basically nothing when you are focus or you take dmg the aura will proc with any defense. After last avoidance changes it also just need a dot, you dodge/ disrupt every 3-4 sec and is always active. Hard be the otherway, if you get dot/attack it will inevitabily proc if not every 3 sec ...every 4 sec max. Since you only need the heal buff while being attacked this will change nothing and will just waste server memory activating and deactivating the proc.

that is not a problem, though. the purported issue is that it's a passive no brainer; this would make it require being hit/aura proccing in order for it to work.

[Acidic]

That will change basically nothing when you are focus or you take dmg the aura will proc with any defense. After last avoidance changes it also just need a dot, you dodge/ disrupt every 3-4 sec and is always active. Hard be the otherway, if you get dot/attack it will inevitabily proc if not every 3 sec ...every 4 sec max. Since you only need the heal buff while being attacked this will change nothing and will just waste server memory activating and deactivating the proc.

that is not a problem, though. the purported issue is that it's a passive no brainer; this would make it require being hit/aura proccing in order for it to work.

The problem I see is at the least both and some.
Effort return is way off
Stacking of the two buffs is unbalanced
As well as the issue of the range mentioned in the thread as a reported bug. (Full 100 instead of live 30 or so)

[Hastykrasty]

Heal debuff are multiplicative:

100base heal -> +40% from FM and Bless of Grugni = 140base heal -> -50% HD (incoming) = 70 heal -> 50% outgoing = 35 Heal
Total: instead of a 75% maximum possible heal debuff you have a 65%, draw your conclusions

[Valfaros]

That will change basically nothing when you are focus or you take dmg the aura will proc with any defense. After last avoidance changes it also just need a dot, you dodge/ disrupt every 3-4 sec and is always active. Hard be the otherway, if you get dot/attack it will inevitabily proc if not every 3 sec ...every 4 sec max. Since you only need the heal buff while being attacked this will change nothing and will just waste server memory activating and deactivating the proc.

that is not a problem, though. the purported issue is that it's a passive no brainer; this would make it require being hit/aura proccing in order for it to work.

Um yeah and since when are defending an enemy attack not passive in warhammer. This is not gw2 where you have to do something for it. Here you just dodge/parry and disrupt based on passive stats. So since a defence is passive the proc still remains passive and a no brainer.
KotBS is still miles ahead of other tanks I see no reason to further nerv them to bring them in line with IB, SM (after removal of double resitance debuff).

Spoiler:

And by that logic, I'm sure next we're going to look at two of the most broken survivability tactics in the game: Run Away and Whazzat Behind You given that the only effort you exert to use them is simply to be playing the game.

Sure can we take a look at Ancestral Inheritance and Stoutness of Stone then, things that make a RP unkilliable without the need to kite. The easiest counter to Run Away is a slow ... and since on this server speedbuffs doesn't stack this thing really isn't that strong anymore anyway people are just lazy to use their slow buttons. I mean order hasn't got any mobility classes too right where they could just appear at the enemy and burst it down within seconds...oh wait.

[BreezeKicker]

If one want a strictly passive counter to FM, all one needs to do is slap chosen heal debuff aura on -> -25% incoming HD 30ft from chosen [Knight mirror is outgoing]

From more active ones:

Destro still have have exclusive access to 5s KD. That is 5s that healer & his grp are not gonna benefit from the increase.
BO can also AoE silence for 5s, giving another window to burst things down.

SH/DPS zeal + BG can provide almost 100% uptime double HD debuff on one or both healers. [Also from what I remember is is buffs 1 then heal debuffs so you still gonna shave off 75% of heal - Not 100% sure about this]

Mara can AoE interrupt and disorient.

+ any other means to completely/partially shut down a healer.

From what i remember [but have no decisive proof thereof] FM was always in effect on 100ft

[Acidic]

Well from what I read of old live warhammer posts it appears that the defensive auras were 100ft
“Knight of the Blazing Sun (KotBS) and the Chosen (Chosen), two tanks united by a mechanic of buffing their group-mates and debuffing their allies with AoE auras. Auras which affect enemies have a 30 foot range, auras which affect group-members have a 100 foot range.”