[KOTBS] Glory Tree

Proposals after the two week discussion period will be moved to this sub-forum for internal review.

Moderators: Balance Forum Mod, Developer, Management, Game Master, Community Manager, Moderator, Web Developer

User avatar
rmpl
Posts: 495

[KOTBS] Glory Tree

Post#1 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:43 pm

1. Identify the issue.
Focused Mending is a very powerful zero effort tactic

Image

2. Explain why it's an issue.
24/7 passive 15% more healing at a cost of an aura and a tactic. It requires no interaction except activating the aura and it's fairly low in the tree so you don't have to sacrifice anything since you'll be picking it up on your way to Heaven's Fury.

3. Propose a viable solution to the problem.
- reduce the bonus from 15% to 10% and swap it with Mighty Soul (12 pt. tactic)

Penril
Posts: 4360

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#2 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:20 pm

Moving to Discussions.

User avatar
peterthepan3
Balance Moderator
Posts: 4910

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#3 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:25 pm

If anything, move it up to 12pt tactic but leave the healing component intact. The healing component itself is not overperforming, especially when one considers that the opposing faction has access to such things, too (look at Zealot's Blessing of Chaos tactic). I'm not a fan of nerfing % increasers just for the sake of it. There needs to be empirical proof that this is overperforming, and to the best of my knowledge there isn't.

I agree that it is rather low hanging fruit. If it were to swap position with Mighty Soul, it would perhaps allow for new dps/hybrid builds, and Focused Mending would become Glory's defining tactic (arguably justified, given its potency).

Certain Vigiliance/Glory specs would require higher RR, but I don't see a problem with this given that the same is true of many other classes (IB, BG, Melee WP, etc.).
Imagetwitch.tv/itsjustjono Image ItsJustJono on YouTube

Incindent (RR7X Magus) Kosomot (RR7X BG) Clown (RR6X WP) Skepta (RR6X SM)
Inactive

Ads
User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 4323

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#4 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:32 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:If anything, move it up to 12pt tactic but leave the healing component intact. The healing component itself is not overperforming, especially when one considers that the opposing faction has access to such things, too (look at Zealot's Blessing of Chaos tactic).

TLDR I agree that it is rather low hanging fruit, and should swap positions with Mighty Soul. Would perhaps allow for new dps/hybrid builds with an easier-to-get Mighty Soul, and Focused Mending would become Glory's defining tactic - which is fair, given its potency.
rune priest have the same tactic ........ only order side have a double healing stackoing group wide heal increase......

btw per se 15% heal increase is not much; crit increase is much better; problems arise when this tactic is coupled and stack with runy one.
The mastery 13 pt is also not much worth, all kobs goes for vigilance instead if they to build primary on left mastery of if they fo mid+right.

The tactic could be moved 11pt but a value nerf should wait till the 13 pt is made more worth imo; 10% as value then seems ok-ish
Last edited by Tesq on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D

Penril
Posts: 4360

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#5 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:33 pm

I just want to add that the team thinks Mighty Soul is crap. So if anyone wants to make a proposal for a possible buff, go for it. I might move it immediately since it is kinda related to this discussion.

As for this thread, I just want to say I don't understand why Chosen's Embrace the Winds (12 points) has the same value (being self-only) as Focused Mending (8 points). That alone makes me think FM should be 10%, at most, regardless of its position in the tree.

User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 4323

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#6 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:35 pm

Spoiler:
Penril wrote:I just want to add that the team thinks Mighty Soul is crap. So if anyone wants to make a proposal for a possible buff, go for it. I might move it immediately since it is kinda related to this discussion.
wont mighty sould be more worth with a rework of unbalanced attack?
Then make an UA proposal. I don't care.
Image

Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D

User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 528

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#7 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:57 pm

For effort vs return it is well over anything I would agree with. Even at 10% group it feels a bit too strong . So would agree 10 and higher in the tree but also look over the range.

User avatar
zumos2
Posts: 278

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#8 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:00 pm

The kobs has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed (prolly couple more) on this server. While I agree with many of them, before even thinking about specific abilities, does the kobs need more nerfs? In general I find balancing with this balance proposals weird to say the least. There is so much focus on specific abilities and tactics, while you have to first take a look at the bigger picture. That is 1) is Kobs balanced with SM/IB? and 2) is order balanced versus destro? Then if the answer is no to the first, you have to determine if something needs to be buffed or nerfed. With Kobs being nerfed so many times, maybe it is time to look to buff the other classes if/where needed. If the answer is no to the second, possible all tanks need buffs/nerfs.

So is order currently imbalanced versus destruction and do the tanks play a major role in this? From smaller scale point of view I would say no. Possibly different for warband scale, but I will let those experts discuss that.

Then is Kobs stronger than SM/IB? Comparison with SM is hard as that class relies more on damage than on utility. IB however should bring a lot of utility and here I think the Kobs overpowers the IB. Does that mean Kobs should be nerfed even more or IB should get some buffs? I'm more for the latter which is why I'm against this proposal.

Some other points:
rmpl wrote:Focused Mending is a very powerful zero effort tactic
Tactics are passive and by definition pretty much zero effort.
rmpl wrote:It requires no interaction except activating the aura
Well that is part of the mechanic of Kobs, I dont see how that is an argument to nerf anything. Balance is always done at top level play, where how hard something is to execute hardly matters.
rmpl wrote:it's fairly low in the tree so you don't have to sacrifice anything since you'll be picking it up on your way to Heaven's Fury.
This is really not true, you always have to sacrifice something. If you want to pick this tactic and the stagger, you will (with 2h build) not be able to pick up the knockdown.

Penril wrote: As for this thread, I just want to say I don't understand why Chosen's Embrace the Winds (12 points) has the same value (being self-only) as Focused Mending (8 points). That alone makes me think FM should be 10%, at most, regardless of its position in the tree.
That argument is totally invalid based on your own rules:
Azarael wrote:3. No reciprocal adjustments, aka: Don't appeal to your mirror.
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- Dark Omen - Destruction

User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 4323

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#9 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:10 pm

@zumos 2, tactic are all passive dont hold much true......tactics which are linked to passive effect (which in this case cannot even be cancelled) are a thing , tactics which are linked to an active skill with a CD are another.

The first type which also stack (additive 25+15=40% ) with tactic of the same type(from runy, best healer on order side) is OP, there is even need to tell why? heal debuff is 50% , heal buff is 40%, 10% remaining heal debuff is horrendous.
Last edited by Tesq on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Image

Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D

User avatar
peterthepan3
Balance Moderator
Posts: 4910

Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending

Post#10 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:18 pm

Acidic wrote:For effort vs return it is well over anything I would agree with. Even at 10% group it feels a bit too strong . So would agree 10 and higher in the tree but also look over the range.

'Feels a bit too strong' - that doesn't really hold much weight for balance discussions, as far as I'm concerned. Do you have empirically verifiable evidence of the tactic overperforming in an organised PvP environment? I'm a big advocate of balance, but not a fan of implementing changes based on a bunch. Is it powerful? Yes, hence why I do not oppose moving it higher up in the tree. Is it overpowered? I do not believe so.

Have to agree with a lot of what Zumos said.
Imagetwitch.tv/itsjustjono Image ItsJustJono on YouTube

Incindent (RR7X Magus) Kosomot (RR7X BG) Clown (RR6X WP) Skepta (RR6X SM)
Inactive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest