[Review] [Mara] Gift of monstrosity

[Tesq]

PROBLEMS (summary):

A-way too good def tool on a dps
B-actually double component (double the opness/skill economy/skill acccess economy)
C-no skill involved and basically critical choice compared to the other 2 "gifts of mutation" / aza nerf to chance to proc didnt solve the problem (idk if the chance proc reduction is Still in effect but seems so).
D-no or only one counter

PROBLEM (analysis):

A-There is need of 3 exemple regarding how strong is this effect and the exploit you
can do with it (talking about only the armor pen reduction component); all these are exemple to understand the power of the armor pen reductionn component itself:

-Be able to "tank" instead your main tank in pve: yes i used to do all pve lair normal/old boss (not BL ones) with just 1 healer or off tank guard me + 1 healer, the tanking prowess the skill give is easy explained you can tank hero, GoM give you a "a total immunity" to armor pen; this mean that boss will hit you as a full def tank with hard cap armor value (75%) if you spec a bit of armor tali. Since your armor wont get bypass and a medium armor easy reach a 50% , with some talisman you can easily max till hard cap of 75% coupled with immunity is a true 75%. This is an abuse and something not intended as no DPS are supposed to tank in pve and is a very esemplification of the power of the skill per se; this make clear that the class have access to something which should be hard restric into the form of class archtype restrictions.

-Too strong counter to enemy realm due class type construction: immune to armor pen mean you are going to be immune to their melee and physical rdps armor pen this mean be under guard reduces BY a lot the ammount of dmg recived by you AND your WB, giving you an unfair advantage, 3-4 marauders can negate the dps of slayer,sw, wl, in open rvr leave very few other target that can be deal with. Anyway the problem is general due order having pletoria of physical skills/classes than destru. This somewhat make harder the aoe spec/and balance aswell on the other "physical" classes which are not slayers (both mdps and rdps).

-The value of reduction armor pen is op by himself regarding class archtype: 100% of armor pen reduction is incredible good, not even 1 single tank have access to something like this, the best max mitigation value in game comparable is on kobs( vigilance skill) and came with a 50% dmg reduction binded to a heavy 30 sec CD /for all dmg=. GoM can potentially be up 90%+ of the time. Moreover unlike vigilance, GoM require no spec as it's a base mara skill. Any balance would had say if it's going to act as a physical dmg denier it should had been at least the same cd of vigilance since it is 2x the value in % ( i know it is dmg reduction whiel the other one is an armor pen reduction but follow the logic; there should be a proportionality between CD and quality of the eff which is not present currently).

B-In addition to the armor pen effect GoM also came core with a healing component ; it is like 1k at rank 40, thus we have a second problem here:

-the healing component scale with rank and not with mastery, this mean that regardless of spec you can swap to it and get both from armor pen reduction and the healing comp at the max value 100% of the time you play (this also mean way too much build freedom even while not going aoe build).

-per se the healing component value is alredy good, 1k every 5 sec is 200 heal per sec, 200 x3 sec is 600 heal, if you compare GoM heal tick over 3 sec VS all other healers heal tick you will see that GoM heal tick is (due not critting) equivalent to have a healer hot on you, more or less, pretty much all the time (average better probably).

C-As anticipated above there is no skill / critical choice involved, the skill is core + is staple for any aoe build as it's the only gift of mutation which allow you to use aoe skills such demoliton and wrecking ball. The st build of mara is done with sav+brut and requrie a swap gameplay based on the skill you need to use and the cancellation of the previously mutation when the new one kick in moreover it also involve critical choice to when use an x skill sicne it gona restric and rpevent the use of those form the other mutations for 5 sec. Due this aza made a small proc % nerf to bandaind the problem , reducting the actuall update time but the skill is still way to good, it is actually acting as a dmg denier such ib/slayer/chosen morales (skin of iron, untouchable, tzeench amplification), it seems these classes all were designed to have a way to dening dmg for an x ammount of time but the mara stand out of any balance due :.

- GoM not being a morale (no build restriction and not 60 sec CD)
- update time way too high for a panic button

D-i basically see only 1 counter to GoM which is CD increase, there is no other way to prevent mara aoe spam and even if it's that way, due cd increase be equal to the duration of GoM the mara can still re update it every 5 sec with different skills or demolition itself (due in mass scale be able to multiple the proc % per 9 targets even demolition use every 5 sec have an high chance to make it happen and anyway you can't refresh it while is active so you still have to re proc it every 5 sec).

SOLUTION:

Due being a core skill and being mandatory for any aoe build --->Reduces the armor pen reduction to 10% (same value can be found on a chosen tactic for have some comparison and not go only by sentiment). but leave the heal component as it is (maybe make it scale with mastery).

ADDITION:

Improve "tzeench reversal" m3 to work similar to IB/CH/slayer morales (skin of iron, untouchable, tzeench amplification) to fix the panic button cross mirrors. Make it a 100% armor pen ignore for 10 sec as GoM is now and keep the currently heal factor (heal 1200) since it's a m3 unlike those other m1/2.

[dansari]

Moving to discussions. Closed May 19

[Toldavf]

So long as the proc rate is reliable i don't see any problem with this, it would stack up with the zealot tactic which is still a decent damage reduction under pressure.

Also opens up armour hardening skills/tactics for future changes maybe as these are not that common.

[dansari]

So long as the proc rate is reliable i don't see any problem with this, it would stack up with the zealot tactic which is still a decent damage reduction under pressure.

Also opens up armour hardening skills/tactics for future changes maybe as these are not that common.

OP is suggesting reducing the passive armor pen reduction from 100% to 10%. I don't think there is a proc for that. Are you referring to the heal proc?

[Mavella]

So long as the proc rate is reliable i don't see any problem with this, it would stack up with the zealot tactic which is still a decent damage reduction under pressure.

Also opens up armour hardening skills/tactics for future changes maybe as these are not that common.

OP is suggesting reducing the passive armor pen reduction from 100% to 10%. I don't think there is a proc for that. Are you referring to the heal proc?

Regenerative shielding and Warping the spirit both have that 10% armor penetration reduction in addition to the armor bonus. I assume that's what he is refering to.

[Toldavf]

So long as the proc rate is reliable i don't see any problem with this, it would stack up with the zealot tactic which is still a decent damage reduction under pressure.

Also opens up armour hardening skills/tactics for future changes maybe as these are not that common.

OP is suggesting reducing the passive armor pen reduction from 100% to 10%. I don't think there is a proc for that. Are you referring to the heal proc?

I assumed he suggested changing the proc, instead he is just suggesting to make the bonus a static buff?

As it works atm you only get the armour pen reduction when the healing proc is active, i assumed that was how he wanted it to remain.

@tesq could you clarify this please

[Tesq]

well i was not clear seems, i imagined to leave it as it is, both procable just nerf the pen reduction, tough it could also be made passive, not that i mind, the problem which surf is that the dmg reduction you get even on proc is unfair (+ not require investiment) and heal value dont scale with mastery.

i must add that of course proc chance for heal or both whatever is the case, should be reverted to his original tooltip value which was 25%.

i think the rest was pretty exaustive, if something is not clear tell it again

[Toldavf]

well i was not clear seems, i imagined to leave it as it is, both procable just nerf the pen reduction, tough it could also be made passive, not that i mind, the problem which surf is that the dmg reduction you get even on proc is unfair (+ not require investiment) and heal value dont scale with mastery.

i must add that of course proc chance for heal or both whatever is the case, should be reverted to his original tooltip value which was 25%.

i think the rest was pretty exaustive, if something is not clear tell it again

I think that's a fair proc rate for both effects, monstro has been horribly op for the longest time and while these doesn't bring it in line with anything in particular, it is defiantly the right move to reduce its effectiveness

[theoddone]

Nice another full on therocrafting proposal without any regard of what actually happens ingame.

Going to monstro stance means giving up damage for survivability. If you want utility in monstro stance you have to spec for it. You also have to be in range of something to proc it. You limit your detaunt options by spamming aoe to proc it. It has always been weak against torment and magic dmg.

The real question is:

Is gift of monstrosity overperforming in group settings?

[Tesq]

Nice another full on therocrafting proposal without any regard of what actually happens ingame.

Going to monstro stance means giving up damage for survivability. If you want utility in monstro stance you have to spec for it. You also have to be in range of something to proc it. You limit your detaunt options by spamming aoe to proc it. It has always been weak against torment and magic dmg.

The real question is:

Is gift of monstrosity overperforming in group settings?

I

It's not theoey craft , given you use it in orvr and not in sc it is one of the more overperformming self buff in game, yea wh ignore it then let' see how many things (classes) it counter.

Sw
Wl
Slayer

All these classes suffer in orvr right now dmg wise any wb would pick 7x bw and 1 engi if possible and is not a mystery why... one of the many reason is mara, to tell the true this change averange if you face good wb will not change anything, cus vs em it' not even relevant.... so even nerf this and allow some physic dps to be usefull will not change the average durability.
Because they are using bw which against isuseless( debuffing res aswell) so you take more dmg from a bw then a physic dps post nerf.. Look if more order physic do became a thing this is a buff of 10% to mara because as it stand now competitivly is go bw or go home.

Mostro paradox , nerf it will make it more usefull in comp orvr settings while nerf puggimg /solo gameplay.

Moreover mara dmg on mostro was buffed aswell (wrecking ball do 2x) and it' a very good party addition due support + sorc nerf made it even better.