[Slayer] Retribution

[dansari]

Some good points so far.. if it's kept a channel it would need to be so good offensively that it was at least on par with the damage output from auto attacking for the duration. I don't necessarily like debuffing or CC because both classes (SL, CH) already have enough (their main purpose is damage.. imo giving them more utility is the wrong direction). What if it was kept as a channel, had the ICD removed, and acted more like Loudmouth to damage your offensive target for X amount each time you're hit?

[Tesq]

some tought:

-why an aoe skill should became st in nature? (hello anyone actually look which skill mastery is in? ), dual weild is a clear imput on the aim of the skill(depsite how is being implemented in war history) or how skill should work both aoe/st indipendetly from weapons equipped, it's pretty clear at least to "me" what this skill should do.

Spoiler:

-buff st dmg of chopp/slayer should be out of question they alredy have the best st average output on average number of hits, give em a kind of offensive channeling with 1 min cd which would results in something pretty much better than their standard rotation so they can do even more dmg...

An underperforming ability that doesn't have a place on the cast bar should be discussed from all angles; the fact that they "are already in a good place" is irrelevant. - Dan

-give malus to classes trying to hit em is also a bad move, what would happen if these classes can stack their active offensive capacity with a passive one to generate even more dmg?
->dmg return is usually a tank feature for a reason

for last, why not make a supposed crap aoe skill work aoe skill especially since:

A)choppa sucks aoe
B)order meta is still for ORVR is bw,bw,bw,bw

->aka instead change too much the skill by make it passive (and so stackable with whatever offensive effect you want...) simply leave 1 sec ICD but make the proc/hit aoe , so the skill have the function it suppose to have /or maybe put a 9 target cap x 1 sec ICD.

//////////////////////

aoe channeling
working only on enemy attacking you
on aoe mastery
cux/that's why it require dual weild.

[dansari]

You make a good point: being in the aoe tree means it should ideally assist with aoe dps in some way

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

-buff st dmg of chopp/slayer should be out of question they alredy have the best st average output on average number of hits, give em a kind of offensive channeling with 1 min cd which would results in something pretty much better than their standard rotation so they can do even more dmg...

An underperforming ability that doesn't have a place on the cast bar should be discussed from all angles; the fact that they "are already in a good place" is irrelevant. - Dan

to clarify, it suppose to be relevant not for the yes or not to discuss about it but in which direction a possible fix should go (so imo not in st way and not stackable with other st offensive stuff, thats why keep the channeling part aswell i dont see it well balanced stacking with other active tools).

[Reesh]

That skill in its base form was supposed to be a panic button, to relief the pressure.

"look at me, I'm flailing my two axes in an magical manner and it can be clearly seen, don't touch me, or you'll get hurt". - that's the design of this skill.

At least I'm certain about one thing in regards to one of the changes to that skill, it should work against ranged physical and magic abilities as well.

If we're considering leaving the channel on it, it should not have an icd, whilst having the ability to proc whatever you can on the return portion of the damage. Working on all direct damaging skills of course.

If we're considering to remove the channel, its duration should be increased to 10s whilst having the 2-3 seconds internal cooldown.

[peterthepan3]

If we're considering leaving the channel on it, it should not have an icd, whilst having the ability to proc whatever you can on the return portion of the damage. Working on all direct damaging skills of course.

This would simply be too powerful: no ICD = run into a warband with guard, pop the ability, get focused by 100 people and deal insane amounts of AoE DPS - all of which can proc other effects.

There's a reason other abilities/effects, that similarly had damage dealt upon being hit, were given ICDs.

[Reesh]

If we're considering leaving the channel on it, it should not have an icd, whilst having the ability to proc whatever you can on the return portion of the damage. Working on all direct damaging skills of course.

This would simply be too powerful: no ICD = run into a warband with guard, pop the ability, get focused by 100 people and deal insane amounts of AoE DPS - all of which can proc other effects.

There's a reason other abilities/effects, that similarly had damage dealt upon being hit, were given ICDs.

Then the slayer would simply die in 2 seconds, even with guard with a suicidal move like that. It's a channeled ability with 1m cd, that works only against direct damaging skills, yet still undergoes through defence checks, so it can be parried/blocked.
At the same time, there's lots of counterplay regarding channeled, long, and highly visual abilities - staggers/punts/kds/interrupts.
Also, there's a certain dps value on ability itself, it doesn't redirect the exact damage back, so it can be fine tuned.

Best way (if its possible code wise), would be to separate the effect - no icd for ST abilities, 1-3s ICD for AoE abilities.
If we'll try to balance this ability around AoE and ST at the same time with the same ICD placed on it, it won't be worth using, unless it'll be pop and forget button.

[Wyzard]

In terms of the reflect dmg when being focused a slayer can already use the parry M1 in combo with riposte tactic making this ability sort of redundant.

To improve this one I would suggest something along the lines of keeping the channel and ability as is but instead of each hit on the slayer reflecting damage, it could

a)give the group a temporary stacking bonus to armor or wounds with each strike per second
perhaps something like 10 wounds/second up to 10 stacks.

b)Debuff the attacker during channel with a -% to healing similar to deep wounds ability.

This would fulfill the tradeoff of the slayer likely dying to maximize it's effect which is in line with the slayer MO and the group can turn it around with some counter momentum.

[Skullgrin]

In terms of the reflect dmg when being focused a slayer can already use the parry M1 in combo with riposte tactic making this ability sort of redundant.

To improve this one I would suggest something along the lines of keeping the channel and ability as is but instead of each hit on the slayer reflecting damage, it could

a)give the group a temporary stacking bonus to armor or wounds with each strike per second
perhaps something like 10 wounds/second up to 10 stacks.

b)Debuff the attacker during channel with a -% to healing similar to deep wounds ability.

This would fulfill the tradeoff of the slayer likely dying to maximize it's effect which is in line with the slayer MO and the group can turn it around with some counter momentum.

Your option A (10 wounds x 10 sec = 100 wounds = 1000 health) is way too powerful, it is the equivalent of putting everyone in the group in 5 pieces of Conqueror armor - only there is no 10% chance to get 1000 health, its basically 100%. If their tanks were also actually in Conq gear it would make them fairly unkillable while the procs were up. I imagine armor would probably be pretty bad too, depending on the amount added. Just my two cents.

[Wyzard]

Assuming the slayer lasts the entire 10 second... i would hope it does something worth using the ability since the slayer does nothing else for those 10 seconds but take hits on the nose.

Those numbers can be tweaked, but i mean so what if the group gets a 1k heal every minute. This is nothing a healer can’t do twice over in the same time frame.