[Shaman/AM] Stacks Converter/Wiper

[live4treasure]

Yes but how would you make it build up faster? There is a tactic that allows you to build up an extra point of force or tranquility, I believe it builds it up on a crit, and no one used it, because it's just not good enough. If you put it as a baseline for the mechanic, in other words whenever someone critically heals they get 2 stacks of tranquility and whenever they critically hit, two stacks of force, it still won't apply to dots and hybrid playstyle will only be seen with DPS or lifetap builds. I would say the playstyle for dps or lifetap AM/Sham can be pretty hybrid even right now, because while you can't put out as much healing as a pure healer, you can still fire off 5 quick aoe heals with 5 force stacks and then juggle 1 life tap and 1 heal. You will maybe do about 0.5 or a bit more of the healing a pure healer can put out by doing this while still remaining at 100 range. Before if you wanted to focus on healing one target you would have to start spamming 2 second cast life taps until you can get a single 1 second cast or instant cast heal for the target you are healing for. It ends up being much less healing.

I'll illustrate the above point. Usually when I focus on healing, and I'm in a position to juggle between force and tranquility, my Boon of Hysh heals for 800 hp and my lifetap heals for about also 800 hp on a low defense target and around 600 on a high defense target, but it can go up to 1200 if I critically hit with my lifetap sometimes. I also have Lambent Aura ticking for maybe 230-270 depending on if it has a force stack on it or not and then I have the lifetap dot ticking on the enemy for 250 on average, critting for 400+ which is about 375-600 healing per tick on my defensive target.

So when I juggle, I do 800 + 600 (lets take worst case scenario) healing every 2 seconds with casts, + 230 + 375 + 100 with hots. So that's about 2k+ healing every 2 seconds and I have a 1k hp shield for emergencies. Pure healer can pretty much do 3k+ single target healing and also has a variety of buttons to do massive burst healing on the target with Magical Infusion and the healing channel for instant cast, as well as a 2k hp shield.

If we take the previous mechanic, my healing goes down to 800 hp every 2 seconds + 230 + 375 + 100 and then every 4th cast I can do a 600 hp heal with a quick lifetap. This is now 1600ish healing every 2 seconds that I can put out and it's a significant nerf, because my healing is low impact and in those 2 seconds it takes to cast my next 800 hp heal my defensive target could pretty much die. In my opinion, the old system feels much less hybrid-friendly than the new one.

And for pure healer, it's still bad. If you implement your suggestion for lifetap where you would have 75% scale with intellect and 75% scale with willpower, unless you are suggesting that the damage of a lifetap ability scale with willpower too, which I think is very OP, then you would just get to do 100-200 damage to one target and then heal for 75% of your normal heal as a 1s cast or instant cast every 4 heals you put out. It still doesn't feel very hybrid, because the pure healer isn't doing any real damage, he's just getting an extra heal.

I don't think it's possible to make all three specs to be hybrid in playstyle. Pure healer certainly won't be, unless you make it OP in that it's a pure healer that also deals good damage. The only ones that will be hybrid in playstyle is DPS and lifetap, with lifetap being true hybrid if we manage to find a way to fix it. Healer will still just be healer, but it will get a fun little instant heal every 5 casts, I guess.

This is why I think the current system is much better and if abilities like the one suggested by the OP and their like are implemented, it can be even better and more fluent for archmages and shamans. But perhaps something could be done so that healers could make use of their tranquility stacks more effectively without relying on flipping or wiping them. I'm not sure what can be done to make healer ams shams do some notable damage in a tight spot without making it op because it's a pure healer that does damage, but that's what a hybrid playstyle would mean I suppose.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

Yes but how would you make it build up faster? There is a tactic that allows you to build up an extra point of force or tranquility, I believe it builds it up on a crit, and no one used it, because it's just not good enough. If you put it as a baseline for the mechanic, in other words whenever someone critically heals they get 2 stacks of tranquility and whenever they critically hit, two stacks of force, it still won't apply to dots and hybrid playstyle will only be seen with DPS or lifetap builds. I would say the playstyle for dps or lifetap AM/Sham can be pretty hybrid even right now, because while you can't put out as much healing as a pure healer, you can still fire off 5 quick aoe heals with 5 force stacks and then juggle 1 life tap and 1 heal. You will maybe do about 0.5 or a bit more of the healing a pure healer can put out by doing this while still remaining at 100 range. Before if you wanted to focus on healing one target you would have to start spamming 2 second cast life taps until you can get a single 1 second cast or instant cast heal for the target you are healing for. It ends up being much less healing.


1-you silly of course point assignation x "skill" use is programmed server side, add +1 and make every 1-0 into 2-1 is a piece of cake compared to op proposal.
2-the way i said is build around the fact that 2 hot, or 2 dot will generate 4/5 points which would translate in the 3rd skill either a casted heal or a casted offensive skill in be...no...tactic need ...of coruse...

-2/3% x point spent disrupt striketrough= so 8/12% point spent (cap would be 10/15%)
-20% reduced cast time per point spent s= so 80% cast time reduction
-10/20% ap cost reduction (need internal test) per poitn spent = so 40%/80% ao cost reduction

basically a offensive AM which play on dots will get a free group heals some in a while which of course since is not offensive nto heal as much as healing AM. Viceversa a healing AM get easier chance to land lifetaps, 2/3 hot or heals and 1 lifetap and reapeat


I'll illustrate the above point. Usually when I focus on healing, and I'm in a position to juggle between force and tranquility, my Boon of Hysh heals for 800 hp and my lifetap heals for about also 800 hp on a low defense target and around 600 on a high defense target, but it can go up to 1200 if I critically hit with my lifetap sometimes. I also have Lambent Aura ticking for maybe 230-270 depending on if it has a force stack on it or not and then I have the lifetap dot ticking on the enemy for 250 on average, critting for 400+ which is about 375-600 healing per tick on my defensive target.

So when I juggle, I do 800 + 600 (lets take worst case scenario) healing every 2 seconds with casts, + 230 + 375 + 100 with hots. So that's about 2k+ healing every 2 seconds and I have a 1k hp shield for emergencies. Pure healer can pretty much do 3k+ single target healing and also has a variety of buttons to do massive burst healing on the target with Magical Infusion and the healing channel for instant cast, as well as a 2k hp shield.

If we take the previous mechanic, my healing goes down to 800 hp every 2 seconds + 230 + 375 + 100 and then every 4th cast I can do a 600 hp heal with a quick lifetap. This is now 1600ish healing every 2 seconds that I can put out and it's a significant nerf, because my healing is low impact and in those 2 seconds it takes to cast my next 800 hp heal my defensive target could pretty much die. In my opinion, the old system feels much less hybrid-friendly than the new one.

mm that is incorrect from my point of view the meccanic need to make the class viable in all his aspect not boost the heal or the dps of the class, those are things which are related to tactics/skill; if you wanna point out about healing/dps power no healer have a meccanic that boost his base dps/heals, rp/zeal have a switcher which move things and to not really buff anything. About anyway the values, as i said those are problems of the lifetaps in general which suffer dok/wop aswell so it's pointless you try to balance a meccanic aroudn em when they are **** balanced in fisrt place, not the meccanics; those lwo value are based on dmg done which of course is a incorrect way to handle the lifetap things as proved in past both on dok/wp and sh/am ab ex......I dont get what so hard you can have formaly the same concept as currently implementation but with a better calulation in practise to handle the values.....i reported this so many times even in past with those 2 ab ex and it never was given a try.

And for pure healer, it's still bad. If you implement your suggestion for lifetap where you would have 75% scale with intellect and 75% scale with willpower, unless you are suggesting that the damage of a lifetap ability scale with willpower too, which I think is very OP, then you would just get to do 100-200 damage to one target and then heal for 75% of your normal heal as a 1s cast or instant cast every 4 heals you put out. It still doesn't feel very hybrid, because the pure healer isn't doing any real damage, he's just getting an extra heal.

i dont get why this is so hard to understand every time i tell it, stop make lifetap heal based on dmg, just remove lifetaps currently concept from your mind, those skills will became with 2 components:

-you do x dmg on target (scale with int), skill tooltips is 75% (needed a 25% compensation for the double nature) of a normal full 100% dot dmg (so 75/100 power of a normal dot).
-you also heal target for x (scale with willp and is a fix value predetermined on the skill just like anyother heal in game),skill tooltips is 75% (needed a 25% compensation for the double nature) of a normal full 100% hot dmg (so 75/100 power of a normal hot)

basically use 2 different comp which scale on different things and are countered by different things; what meccanic need to do IS:

-MAKE YOU LAND HITS even if not dps mode (so low int)
-GIVE GROUP HEALS ON THE MOVE for dps spec or for those who build 4-5 point with off skills
-AP COST REDUCTION cuz play hybrid is a pain otherwise( in fact this was missing from original implementation).

the dot on the enemy is your healing source for the skill removed that end the heals from that lifetap but the value heals do and dmg do are 2 separate and different things. This will allow em to function in any build, in this case think this as Multiple attribute syndrome is wrong because meccanic will provide fix for the flow not viceversa.


I don't think it's possible to make all three specs to be hybrid in playstyle. Pure healer certainly won't be, unless you make it OP in that it's a pure healer that also deals good damage. The only ones that will be hybrid in playstyle is DPS and lifetap, with lifetap being true hybrid if we manage to find a way to fix it. Healer will still just be healer, but it will get a fun little instant heal every 5 casts, I guess.

when you make hybrid gameplay avaiable base heal specc will heal mroe because now have access to offensive healing stuff which dont suck and are more powerfull or spammed faster due cast tiem reduction.
what you dont get anymore by increase only heal or only dps you get it byt spoam more things in less GCD

where you spammed 2 hot and 1 group heals now you have , 2hot, 1lifetap (which will land most of tiems now) and 1 group heals and you done it in the same time 4,5 sec. BY playing hybrid your heals have increase by 1 full skills.
Make that skill (lifetaps )work better in general and you will have the classes working as they were intended originally the boost you are loosing from this meccanic which is **** for hybrid play will be recovered easily with a less brain dead meccanic and without a brain dead meccanic swapp skill.

[live4treasure]

Spoiler:

1-you silly of course point assignation x "skill" use is programmed server side, add +1 and make every 1-0 into 2-1 is a piece of cake compared to op proposal.
2-the way i said is build around the fact that 2 hot, or 2 dot will generate 4/5 points which would translate in the 3rd skill either a casted heal or a casted offensive skill in be...no...tactic need ...of coruse...

-2/3% x point spent disrupt striketrough= so 8/12% point spent (cap would be 10/15%)
-20% reduced cast time per point spent s= so 80% cast time reduction
-10/20% ap cost reduction (need internal test) per poitn spent = so 40%/80% ao cost reduction

basically a offensive AM which play on dots will get a free group heals some in a while which of course since is not offensive nto heal as much as healing AM. Viceversa a healing AM get easier chance to land lifetaps, 2/3 hot or heals and 1 lifetap and reapeat

I'm not talking about how hard it is to code atm, I'm more arguing about the gameplay and balance of such a system. Ok, so every time you cast 3 dots, you get a free group heal. What happens if I don't need a group heal right now? I'll sit with that free groupheal forever, and when I do need it, it'll just be 600 hp, which in a situation in which a DPS AM actually needs to stop and assist in healing his group will do absolutely nothing. Sure, It'll be at 0 ap cost, but at the end of the day, this is basically a nerf. Before with 5 force stacks I could stop and do 5 aoe heals for 3k hp in 5 seconds, now I get to cast 1 group heal and then I have to start spamming dots on different targets to get another quick group heal.

I don't know, but to me this seems clunky and unrewarding. Unless this system also boosts the amount of healing I do with each force stack by like 20-30% and boost its crit chance by a significant amount, then it'll have no noticable impact on any scenario.

mm that is incorrect from my point of view the meccanic need to make the class viable in all his aspect not boost the heal or the dps of the class, those are things which are related to tactics/skill; if you wanna point out about healing/dps power no healer have a meccanic that boost his base dps/heals, rp/zeal have a switcher which move things and to not really buff anything. About anyway the values, as i said those are problems of the lifetaps in general which suffer dok/wop aswell so it's pointless you try to balance a meccanic aroudn em when they are **** balanced in fisrt place, not the meccanics; those lwo value are based on dmg done which of course is a incorrect way to handle the lifetap things as proved in past both on dok/wp and sh/am ab ex......I dont get what so hard you can have formaly the same concept as currently implementation but witha better calulation in practise to handle the values.....i reported this so many times even in past with those 2 ab ex and it never was given a try.

i dont get why this is so hard to understand every time i tell it, stop make lifetap heal based on dmg, just remove lifetaps currently concept from your mind, those skills will became skill will2 component:

-you do x dmg on target (scale with int), skill tooltips is 75% (needed a 25% compensation for the double nature) of a normal full 100% dot dmg (so 75/100 power of a normal dot).
-you also heal target for x (scale with willp and is a fix value predetermined on the skill just like anyother heal in game),skill tooltips is 75% (needed a 25% compensation for the double nature) of a normal full 100% hot dmg (so 75/100 power of a normal hot)

basically use 2 different comp which scale on different things and are countered by different things; what meccanic need to do IS:

-MAKE YOU LAND HITS even if not dps mode (so low int)
-GIVE GROUP HEALS ON THE MOVE for dps spec or for those who build 4-5 point with off skills
-AP COST REDUCTION cuz play hybrid is a pain otherwise

the dot on the enemy is your healing soruce for the skill removed that end the heals fromt hat lifetap but the valeu heals do and dmg do are 2 separate and different things. This will allow em to function in any build in this case think this as Multiple attribute syndrome is wrong because meccanic will provide fix for the flow not viceversa.

Yes but then what do you define as a hybrid? If the a healer am/sham is a hybrid, then he has to be a hybrid of two things. Meaning he should be able to heal and damage a bit. If he can't damage, then he isn't a hybrid, he's just a healer. If that's the case, then why attempt to make lifetap into something usable for healers instead of just giving them a healing ability that consumes tranquility stacks and heals the defensive target for some amount?

If you make it so that the healing of lifetaps isn't dependant on the damage it does, then this nerfs DPS and Lifetap spec AM/Sham's ability to heal himself by a lot, because they will have very low willpower and the healing will be further reduced by Divine Fury tactic. This means that this ability will do 75% of the damage of a normal ability and heal even less than a normal heal, which is already very low for dps or lifetap sham/am. At this point it becomes pointless to use it for them instead of radiant lance and brain buster.

This is what I mean by thinking that the previous mechanic is very clunky in it's nature, the bandaid you have to apply to make it usable for pure healers is much more troublesome and messes up a lot about the class. OP's suggestion seems much more clean in terms of game design in comparison.

where you spammed 2 hot and 1 group heals now you have , 2hot, 1lifetap (which will land most of tiems now) and 1 group heals and you done it in the same time 4,5 sec. BY playing hybrid your heals have increase by 1 full skills.
Make that skill (lifetaps )work better in general and you will have the classes working as they were intended originally the boost you are loosing from this meccanic which is **** for hybrid play will be recovered easily with a less brain dead meccanic and without a brain dead meccanic swapp skill.

I understand what you are saying, in that your suggestion would have AMs and Shams weave their different skills together to allow for quick casts of things and that you don't like the new mechanic because it allows for braindead juggling between lifetaps and normal heals.

I think we can both agree that when a player does something, he wants it to have a meaningful and noticeable effect of some sort, yes? So that, by using some ability, he can have some effect on the situation.

So that's exactly what I don't like about your proposed mechanic. It just doesn't feel like it has any real impact compared to what we have right now. You cast a few spells, and then you can cast another spell really quickly, but because that spell usually gives you something that your build isn't focused on, it has very little effect. Then if you apply your lifetaps changes, all the lifetap spells become pointless in their existence, besides the dot, since they might as well just be pure heals that consume tranquility instead of building it.

I heard what you said and I hope I have managed to understand it, but I simply don't agree. I think the class would be worse off as a whole if the mechanic you propose was implemented. It's a needless complication for the gamestyle that in fact decreases the classes potency in a tight situation while offering it very little benefit in return.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

I'm not talking about how hard it is to code atm, I'm more arguing about the gameplay and balance of such a system. Ok, so every time you cast 3 dots, you get a free group heal. What happens if I don't need a group heal right now? I'll sit with that free groupheal forever, and when I do need it, it'll just be 600 hp, which in a situation in which a DPS AM actually needs to stop and assist in healing his group will do absolutely nothing. Sure, It'll be at 0 ap cost, but at the end of the day, this is basically a nerf. Before with 5 force stacks I could stop and do 5 aoe heals for 3k hp in 5 seconds, now I get to cast 1 group heal and then I have to start spamming dots on different targets to get another quick group heal.

you dont get well how the current system work, the healing stack bust heal so if you have 5 off stack atm you have a 2.5 group heal not even boosted; with my system you donT need to stop for group heal with 4 points the heal is cast in 0.5 sec and at 5 it is ista cast on the move

yes it will be 600 hp the fact that you play hybrid dosent mean that you are worth 2 class, yo will do 75% of your tooltips in damg and 25% of your tooltips in heal and not 100% of both as for exempel if you are 1 bw and 1 wp.

dps am will have acces to a bit of group heals etc istant cast so he dont have to stop for heal like a full caster because he's healign wil be **** compared to it (perfect trade out , **** heal on the move vs 3k crit static cast, hybrid working cheked!

currentyl system:

5 stack off meccanic= 2.5 sec heal cast time (not boost)
5 stack heal meccanic= 2.5 sec gheal cast time (boost in power)

old rewamped system

5 stack off meccanic = istanc heal , no cost
4 stack heal by 2x hot = booster off lifetap---->2 stack off= 1.5 gheal

the currently 5 points boost int he currentyl emccanic would became the boosting on the lifetap

if you dont want to use heals then youy missign the point of the class the class are meant to be hybrid, aka you do less dmg of a sorc and you do some heal in return your max dps is that; and you can anyway pre dot throw 2 hot and then have a boost to next attack, you need to use more more GCD but you put out 2x the action as now most of em will be even boosted for no ap cost


I don't know, but to me this seems clunky and unrewarding. Unless this system also boosts the amount of healing I do with each force stack by like 20-30% and boost its crit chance by a significant amount, then it'll have no noticable impact on any scenario.

in part yes the point assignation compensate alredy for that give points in 2-1 ratio instead 1-0 so that even by spamm only heal or only offensive skill you always (exept the VERY FIRST in combat skill you use ) have a base of:

20% cast time reduction /20% power boost
10/20% ap cost reduction
2/3% striketrought




If you mind why the meccanis is more helpfull healwise is because a healing AM/SH need to do 2 things for heal:
1- cast heal (willpoer)
2- hit target with lifepats (intelligence)

while offensive am/sh need only to "hit", which mean you suffer less multiple attribute syndrome[

Yes but then what do you define as a hybrid? If the a healer am/sham is a hybrid, then he has to be a hybrid of two things. Meaning he should be able to heal and damage a bit. If he can't damage, then he isn't a hybrid, he's just a healer. If that's the case, then why attempt to make lifetap into something usable for healers instead of just giving them a healing ability that consumes tranquility stacks and heals the defensive target for some amount?

If you make it so that the healing of lifetaps isn't dependant on the damage it does, then this nerfs DPS and Lifetap spec AM/Sham's ability to heal himself by a lot, because they will have very low willpower and the healing will be further reduced by Divine Fury tactic. This means that this ability will do 75% of the damage of a normal ability and heal even less than a normal heal, which is already very low for dps or lifetap sham/am. At this point it becomes pointless to use it for them instead of radiant lance and brain buster.

Hybrid is something that do both; THE QUALITY of the work that can do is ANOTHER thing and left to balance skills and tactics the fact that the class can heal as a normal healer and can add fluff dmg is not underperforming those dmg matter a lot in the greand scheme of things with out coutn how much cleansing is important and how much 2 super dotting healing class can matter more in that department; how i will nerf it then? dmg lifetap is subject to guard/resistence/toughness+ general dmg reduction effects such save me hide etc

your lifetaps heals are abysmall compared to a solid new fixed not crit 300 ish hot-like tick (which it get EVEN x new meccanic boost by 5% POTENTCY PER STACK ON BOTH COMPONENT SO CAP 25% BOOST). in heal mode.

Yes well in "theory "i will nerf potential heal done on lifetap if you play a off am/Sh which is NOT even true because WHAT YOU LOOSE on lifetap healing YOU GAIN IT ON CORE HOTS and group heals.

My meccanic is a general buff to all am/sh aspects.



I understand what you are saying, in that your suggestion would have AMs and Shams weave their different skills together to allow for quick casts of things and that you don't like the new mechanic because it allows for braindead juggling between lifetaps and normal heals.

I think we can both agree that when a player does something, he wants it to have a meaningful and noticeable effect of some sort, yes? So that, by using some ability, he can have some effect on the situation.

So that's exactly what I don't like about your proposed mechanic. It just doesn't feel like it has any real impact compared to what we have right now. You cast a few spells, and then you can cast another spell really quickly, but because that spell usually gives you something that your build isn't focused on, it has very little effect. Then if you apply your lifetaps changes, all the lifetap spells become pointless in their existence, besides the dot, since they might as well just be pure heals that consume tranquility instead of building it.

you still dont get it, where you now cast 1 spell you will cast 2-3 you dont need to have offensive stack buff offensive spell because with new meccanic you can trhow random hot which will boost offensive and reduces his cast tiem/or boost it so you gains tuff dont loose any; the resutl will be the same:

-in same cast time
-the skill YOU want
-will be boosted if it is istant cast or cast time reduced if it is not.

mybe it is this last point you dont like where the skill either get cast time reduction or boost; it can simple be made then do both from meccanic if the meccanic will be not sufficent but for exemple letes sue searing tough

5/5 stack as now it get boost by 25%

-currently you will spam dots then use Searing touch
-new mccanic will go like : dots x3-4 / 2x hot (this will reduces or boost next skill casted) / finish with searingh touch (which is boosted by 4 stack so it do 20% dmg more

so where is the nerf? i dont see any nerf here im maccninc you just plan when do the burst and forcing you to play hybrid as the class required and make at the same time the hybrid builds viables.

As said look if you think that cast post heal on offensive skill is not enough then the alterity of the "cast time reduction or dmg/heal boost" can be changed in always do both (it may be the case but it jsut requrie a fast internal testing with 2 standard rotation) so epr summarize my page 1 meccanic vs what you want it happens

PAGE 1
-every skill assing 2-1 / 1-2 points instead than 1-0/ 0-1
-points get "consumed" as originaly intended instead scale back of one.
-20% cast time reduction x points spent or 20% power increase x points spent (ALWAYS ONE OF TWO)
-10/20% ap reduction x point spents (depend from internal test)
-2/3% striketrought x points spent (aka max 10 or 15%)

NEW PAGE 1
-every skill assigb 2-1 / 1-2 points instead than 1-0/ 0-1
-points get "consumed" as originaly intended instead scale back of one.
-20% cast time reduction x points spent (ALWAYS)
-20% power increase x points spent(ALWAYS)
-10/20% ap reduction x point spents (depend from internal test)
-2/3% striketrought x points spent (aka max 10 or 15%)

*per consideration above all skill always get at least empowered by 1 point of stack so full healing/offensive spam always results in base:

-20% cast time reduction '
-20% power increase
-10/20% ap reduction
-2/3% striketrought

due the fact that post consume the stack always go from 0 to 1 then this is a passive boost, basically am/sh are alwlays 1/5 points and benefith from em all the time. Thats why i didnt feel like they need always both cats time reduction and aswell power boost alltogheter with out dont counting that Atm there should be no disrupt striketrough on based on points; this is also somethign which boost your offensive spell like a raw dmg boost would do and which old meccanic didnt have.

i do know that it is complicated but it will go very very smooth in action , it is also very fun and rewarding.

[live4treasure]

Spoiler:

So to reiterate:

Current system does the following:

50% cast time reduction or 20% bonus if it is instant cast/channeled spell
50% ap cost reduction
Consumes only 1 stack per spell.

The system you propose will do:

20% cast time reduction and 20% bonus in effectiveness for all spells per stack
20% ap cost reduction per stack
Consumes all stacks on spell cast

So lets say we are at five stacks for comparison

5 off stacks of the current system means you can cast a heal at 1.25s cast time and 15-20 ap cost 5 times, lets say for 600, but you have to stop and cast it.

5 off stacks of your proposal means you can cast a single heal instantly at 0 ap that will heal for 1200.

5 heal stacks of your system would cause a healer to lifetap someone for 400 and heal for 600 with 20% strikethrough

5 heal stacks of your system would cause a dps to lifetap someone for maybe 800-1000 non-crit and heal for 1200

5 heal stacks of current system wouldn't do much for healer

5 heal stacks of current system would allow a dps to cast 5 life taps for 400-500 non-crit and heals for 600-750 on the move at 1 second per spell and 15 ap.

---------------------------------------

It still seems a nerf even if it's 20% less cast time and 20% more damage/healing at the same time. With the current system, you can also "store" stacks and use them later when you actually need them. If OP's suggestion is implemented, healers will also have a use for the current system.

Also, you mentioned it being 2 classes. That's 100% incorrect. DPS AM doesn't even come close to BW in damage, and normal AM is a weaker healer than WP. It's not even close to two classes. If you think hybrid is supposed to be 75% of one class and 25% of another, then you'll just have a trash class that will simply be worse than other classes. The difference between 0% and 25% is very low, and the difference between 100% and 75% is huge in terms of making a class viable. Not only that, but class balance is a far more complicated issue than just stating simply %. For example, you have to also consider their sustain damage, their burst damage, their aoe damage, their single target damage, their debuffs, their cc, their survivability and so on. An example would be that AM takes a long time to set up their damage, aka 4 gcds to apply dots and somtimes 2 more to apply debuffs to enemy defenses, before they can begin to actually kill their target in a controlled pvp environment. WL on the other hand can do their damage instantly without virtually any preparation, going straight to bursting the enemy down. This difference, for example, is a far more fair one as a hybrid tax than 75% damage. I just can't agree with your ideas, because they seem fundementally removed from reality to me and end up being more of a nerf, then what you claim it to be.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

So to reiterate:

Current system does the following:

50% cast time reduction or 20% bonus if it is instant cast/channeled spell
50% ap cost reduction
Consumes only 1 stack per spell.

The system you propose will do:

20% cast time reduction and 20% bonus in effectiveness for all spells per stack
20% ap cost reduction per stack
Consumes all stacks on spell cast

So lets say we are at five stacks for comparison

5 off stacks of the current system means you can cast a heal at 1.25s cast time and 15-20 ap cost 5 times, lets say for 600, but you have to stop and cast it.

group heal if you mean that is 1.5 sec at 5 stack tested now

5 off stacks of your proposal means you can cast a single heal instantly at 0 ap that will heal for 1200.

because you had spent ap building resource previously and is spec depending

5 heal stacks of your system would cause a healer to lifetap someone for 400 and heal for 600 with 20% strikethrough

uhmm use correct values which need to be scaled if 300 is 100% value of a normal hot then 75% is 225 which will not happen if the dmg component is disrupt /absorbed and cant crit and scale with willp/and heal crit chance. The disrupt striektrought work only on the off component; both component can be boost in power so for exemple a 5 stack will boost this double it to 450 not crit (well the life tap still need to hit and is not spamable as a normal hot and requrei range on target).
crit mmultipelr is 50% on healers so is like 450 /2x3= 675

-675 crit tick life tap (require to hit on application, and off tick over time comp to not be disrupt/block and with a mdoerate long long CD compared to a spomable hot. )-> only debuff from outgoign heal debuff; the whoie disrupt striketrough is precalculated when meccanic is consumed as this meccanic is special so if you had 10% at application every tick have 10% striketrought.

-450 crit heal tick (require not off target , not enemy in range, debuffable by both O.heal debuff and Inc.heal debuff

5 heal stacks of your system would cause a dps to lifetap someone for maybe 800-1000 non-crit and heal for 1200

this is not true correct math is above

5 heal stacks of current system wouldn't do much for healer

i agree, thats way new system give half with heal spam that what the currently giev with 5 off stacks.

5 heal stacks of current system would allow a dps to cast 5 life taps for 400-500 non-crit and heals for 600-750 on the move at 1 second per spell and 15 ap.

not possible st lifetaps have 10 sec CD the classes (w/o even meccanit ) alredy requrie you to full use a lots of different skills.

---------------------------------------

It still seems a nerf even if it's 20% less cast time and 20% more damage/healing at the same time. With the current system, you can also "store" stacks and use them later when you actually need them. If OP's suggestion is implemented, healers will also have a use for the current system.

Also, you mentioned it being 2 classes. That's 100% incorrect. DPS AM doesn't even come close to BW in damage, and normal AM is a weaker healer than WP. It's not even close to two classes. If you think hybrid is supposed to be 75% of one class and 25% of another, then you'll just have a trash class that will simply be worse than other classes. The difference between 0% and 25% is very low, and the difference between 100% and 75% is huge in terms of making a class viable. Not only that, but class balance is a far more complicated issue than just stating simply %. For example, you have to also consider their sustain damage, their burst damage, their aoe damage, their single target damage, their debuffs, their cc, their survivability and so on. An example would be that AM takes a long time to set up their damage, aka 4 gcds to apply dots and somtimes 2 more to apply debuffs to enemy defenses, before they can begin to actually kill their target in a controlled pvp environment. WL on the other hand can do their damage instantly without virtually any preparation, going straight to bursting the enemy down. This difference, for example, is a far more fair one as a hybrid tax than 75% damage. I just can't agree with your ideas, because they seem fundementally removed from reality to me and end up being more of a nerf, then what you claim it to be.
i meant as propedeutic view of the hybrid nature not as what power creep they have atm.

[live4treasure]

Spoiler:

I'm talking about casted life taps, not dots. Just fyi, because you seem to be misinterpriting this. Caster single target life tap spells benefit the most from the current system.

I feel like we're getting to a point where we just don't really understand what the other person is trying to say, or perhaps it has come down to a matter of preference. I don't think your opinion on the matter has been swayed, and I know my opinion, while becoming more informed, has largely remained the same in terms of my preference for the current system over the old and whatever iterations it might potentially have. I don't think we can change that at this point, but we can at least hope that whatever developer or moderater has been readng this thread found something insightful during our debate.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

I'm talking about casted life taps, not dots. Just fyi, because you seem to be misinterpriting this.

the comparison should be the same cuz they scale the same way

boom fo isha = 1400 heal
balance essence heal= 1400 /100 x 75= 1050 heal
balance essence dmg= 1400/100 x 75=1080 /2 (by guard)= 540 dmg

-boom of isha tooltips =1400 pre 2x heal debuff (2x because easier to use)
-balance essence sum of both tooltips = 1590 pre 1x pre heal debuff (harder to use)

this is a hybrid skill work-like in my mind

I feel like we're getting to a point where we just don't really understand what the other person is trying to say, or perhaps it has come down to a matter of preference. I don't think your opinion on the matter has been swayed, and I know my opinion, while becoming more informed, has largely remained the same in terms of my preference for the current system over the old and whatever iterations it might potentially have. I don't think we can change that at this point, but we can at least hope that whatever developer or moderater has been readng this thread found something insightful during our debate.

thats for sure

EDIT: still remember this a lifetaps general issue and not much related to meccanic itself.

[live4treasure]

Spoiler:

Though you've made more clear what you're suggesting on lifetap. Making it have both an element of baseline healing and a certain amount of damage it turns into further healing would work out fine for both sides of the AM/Sham spectrum. That wasn't really clear to me at the start, since you spoke of sepparating the damage and healing. I agree with that specific idea of yours

[ferraz19]

I agree with the mechanic being useless..

I'm not really sure on what needs to be done but the mechanic is pretty useless right now


Hym