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[Sorcerer] Shades of Death

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lefze
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Re: [Sorcerer] Shades of Death. [Close Date: 15th June]

Post#11 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:46 pm

daniilpb wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:01 pm
lefze wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:39 pm While I respect your view on the matter of not being able to do damage on the move, I have to disagree completely. chillwind-wop-vision are all castable on the move, simply skipping arctic allows you to kite till the dots are about to tick and only requires you to stand still for 1 second to cast gloomburst, and the end of the rotation is instas anyways. Now I do realize that in a 6v6 doombolts are required, but you can still most definetly put out some serious bursts on the move.

Sustained damage is of course a bit of a different matter, but I do think that sorc has quite okay sustained damage aswell, even though every second rotation is gimped.
I do agree that you can pull off some quick burst while moving but here comes the question: is it any effective? Not counting dots, 2-3 skills in my rotation still can be disrupted even if I get disrupt strike through from every possible item with soft cap intelligence (damage score board usually looks quite frustrating no matter how hard you mash your buttons. Sure, it can’t be considered as a real indicator of something but still).
Also you should consider that you will be a target number one once WL gets its M1 or SM - its M2. Hell, everyone will rush you even with simple CHCH. We have no Resolut Defense, no snare breakers besides M2 and no escape tools except Flee so they will reach you eventually. Once enemy team decide to try you out, most likely you won’t deal any significant damage until you reach guards - that’s a sad fact.
Usually after typical full rotation it’s possible to get target’s heal to 30-40%, after that you have to wait for cooldowns. It gives enough time for healers to get health back to safe amount. Then you have to repeat ending up with the same result. Imo this window should be covered with something. Not with more burst abilities but maybe with something sustainable (you can hardly rely on dots in that case).
Also, on a side note, once your first fight is finished, second one against same people most likely will be the best one you’ve ever had because enemies will toss some points into disrupt and this is where the real fun begins...
My opinion on the disrupt "issues" is that they are largely exaggerated. You won't get perfect rotations off every time if the enemy party stacks disrupt, but that also takes quite a lot of investment to counter one class, arguably a lot more than the much whined about double ini debuff, which also is very much negateable. So it's more or less the same idea, and the fact remains that in the environement you keep bringing up, shield tanks don't really exist, effectively taking the biggest counter for sorcs out of the game completely, namely HTL. Healers remain as insane disrupt machines of course, but even they are manageable, as I said before even a few successful casts are gonna mean a lot when there is two offensive tanks and a mdps hitting the target already. Now you can argue that a few successful casts are gonna be nothing through guard or detaunt, but how many good parties actively loose even dps through guard? What's more is that for example WP aoe detaunt can't hit a sorc without missing detaunt on the three other people hitting him, and all detaunts are counterable with a well timed knockdown after guard punt anyways.

At any rate, I already suggested an adition to the proposal to deal with disrupts, which still allows some pressure through disrupts. And while sorcs do have quite long downtimes on full rotations, it is fluid enough, and what I would envision the ability as would provide the sorc with more damage between rotations and augment their rotations, without turning into a party proc vendor in addition to having potentially devastating bursts. And also we shouldn't pretend like successful sorc rotations are nothing against even really good 6-mans, while it can take a few of them to burn someone down, a well played sorc leaves little slack for the enemy when combined with good punts, timing and common sense. The class shouldn't have it all, and I don't believe in party procs being the solution to fixing the class, it's as simple as that. They were nerfed for a reason.

Being caught is of course a huge downside to the class, but you can most certainly still do damage. And we both know kiting even WLs is doable if your party plays extremely well, and seeing as you are arguing from a 6v6 perspective, it should be assumed the party isn't gonna let the sorc die for no reason because they are too lazy to prevent it. Of course FM being M2 and not M1 puts the sorc at a disadvantage, but Ensnare having 65ft range shouldn't be ignored either. But at the end of the day a sorc shouldn't be caught, though it is inevitable in a lot of situations, but it takes time, timing and the right mix of immunities and misplays by the sorcs party, it's not like a WL party can catch a sorc at will. Though I do agree WL+SM M2 is nasty, but at that point you would also have FM up assuming no AM, and what's more it means there won't be demo+champ on you.

But as I said before, differing views, both are valid, but it still needs proper discussion as this is infact a huge change.
dansari wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:35 pm Devil's advocate: is this an issue that persists in orvr as well? To be sure, ranged is not a great DPS class to bring in small scale. If the ability is underperforming that's one thing but if it's just underperforming in small scale I think that's different
The skill is crap in any format. Like complete crap, not worth speccing for at all.
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Ramasee
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Re: [Sorcerer] Shades of Death. [Close Date: 15th June]

Post#12 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:50 pm

lefze wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Reesh wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:34 pm Allow it to crit coupled with class mechanic, test it how the damage performs, if afterwards it performs well below average another solutions should be implemented - that's how i see it.
Don't have to test it, just multiply the numbers in the screenshots by 2.25 and make a rough estimate of how often it will crit, you will get a pretty damn accurate idea of how it would work. "..."
Averaged out the damage using the screenshots to be 76. With the best gear you can get on RoR, usually adds 12% crit chance. Sorc mechanic adds 35% crit chance. Max sorc mechanic is a total crit modifier of 3x. I have no idea what the average player's chance to be critis, but lets just say it is 3% for easier math.

(76 x 1 x 0.5) + (76 x 3 x 0.5) = 152 average damage per proc.

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