[SW] Sweeping Slash

[lefze]

I don't necessarily think Sweeping Slash needs a buff. I spec for it and sure, it goes unused in most situations. One thing to keep in mind is that Merc Soldier grants a 50% crit damage increase on Sweeping Slash, so dropping it to 5s + 30ft range could be reaching. I agree that the ability is lackluster *specifically because of the 10s cd*, just want to be careful about making it too strong. I don't necessarily think ASW needs to be able to deal tons of aoe damage, since it's single target damage is so high. Something that could be useful is simply giving those variables to Sinister Assault. So, remove the augmentation of Brutal Assault and grant Sweeping Slash a 35ft cone (+10ft) and 5s cooldown (from 10s) with Sinister Assault slotted. That would be my preferred approach (if it changes at all, and as a player I'm not convinced it does), so then you have to give something up: do you give up IA for the +str/ws (probably not), Wrist Slash for its ini/ws steal (probably not), or No Respite for its 15% damage increase (likely culprit if you wanted to try to develop an aoe path for ASW).

I'd like to check on the dps it's dealing.

Tying it to a tactic is a no go, unless it makes the cooldown zero seconds. While originally the proposal aimed at making the spec okay at actual AoE damage, the proposal now simply aims to give SS some form of usefulnes. Having access to a single 5 second AoE is still not making the spec good at AoE, but the increased range might make it worth to spec for as it is damage you can use when approaching GS range, or when you get CCd and can't quite reach with your regular skills. And there is no way anyone is gonna take a tactic for that functionality, but without changes it's just gonna sit there as a garbage 9 point ability for a spec that needs all the aditional options it can get, as ASWs don't have a normal dual spec with choices and the likes that other classes have. Now a 5 second cooldown IS gonna give the spec a little more AoE obviously, but it's not a nearly significant enough amount to begin talking about speccing a skill AND a tactic for it. And what's more, (A)SW should be disregarded completely from any talks of oRvR bomb balance, it's not nearly good enough to be taken into account.

But I agree that ASW has no business dealing massive AoE damage really, and as such SS needs a rework to a utility ST spell, and I wish anyone good luck with pushing that through. Though on the other hand any bombing SW could do was gutted hard, and if anything, strong, spammable AoE in assault tree could augment the bombing Skirmish can do so you switch depending on range. Not doable currently though, as it's not even remotely viable to switch between assault and skirmish just to get off a Sweeping Slash as it's very likely to not hit anyone, and then you just wasted 5-6 seconds of damage for nothing.

So really, would be nice to have some actual input from Torque for example, because it's nearly impossible to come to a real conclusion when the impression I get is that the spec has AoE, but it shouldn't, but the useless AoE skill still won't get changed to something that the spec actually should have.

As for the dps, cast a GS every 10 seconds and calculate the dps, that's more or less your dps per target with SS.

I don't agree these changes are needed for the ASW. Sinister assault is what gives BA its real st burst. Reworking it to add unnessecary range on sweeping slash breaks the ST burst. Rather rework SS to something for utility or leave it as it is.

Sinister Assault is a bad, bad tactic, unlesss you solo, and balance isn't done around soloing. 15% damage on EVERYTHING is just an infinite amount better than a small boost on a skill you may or may not land every 5 seconds. I agree on the rest though, but reworking it into a ST ability was already declined.

Maybe you could salvage the sinister assault portion of your proposal by tieing it to draw blood instead?

Not even remotely worth a tactic slot, I think it's the single worst DoT on any class I've played. And again, brings no utility and less than mediocre damage, not gonna do anything for the class or the spec.

[Ramasee]

Sweeping Slash has a base damage of 242 (at rank 39) with a strength / melee power modifier of 0.2 and a weapon dps modifier of 1.5 (main hand only, the bow's dps does not count)

So I went looking for another ability that has a 25ft range, 35AP cost, and has access to a 50% critical damage tactic. Demolition! (marauder)

Demolition has a base damage of 136 (at Rank 39) with a strength / melee power modifier of 0.2 and a weapon dps modifier of 1.5 (Main hand at full value, offhand at 45% value). These are the same modifiers at sweeping slash!

Then we take into account that offhand modifer for the marauder with a 56 dps weapon (near bis atm). 56 * 0.45 * 1.5 = 37.8
So for a mastery ability and a 10s cooldown, sweeping slash deals 68 more pre-mitigation damage with equal geared players.

Edit: (Disclaimer) base values are reversed determined after finding modifers, as such they may be off by +/- 1

[Athergic]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

[lefze]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Wat, how is a 9 point mastery ability on a 10 second cooldown performing almost the same damage as a 0 second cooldown core ability on a class that doesn't lack mdps tools fine?

1363 sweeping slash crits, 1013 demo crits calculated on a 2800 armor target. This is with Wrist Slash, Vengeance, No Respite, BiS gear and overcap strength to compensate for mara Ferocious Assault. Mara number is with BiS gear, Ferocious Assault, Mutated Aggressor, Piercing Bite, Growing Instability. In adition to the damage not being that far apart, the mara equivalent can be paired with AP drain and/or morale drain, and is a lot easier to land as mara has tools like charge and snarebreak. Demolition range can also be extended with a tactic.

Should add that right now, you can get off that 1363 crit once every 30 seconds, as vengeance is required, while demolition is spammable and can effectively be used 9-10 times every 30 seconds with almost those numbers, Ferocious Assault being a 60 sec CD and 20 sec duration, though a strength modifier of 0.2 and the fact you go over softcap with it anyways makes it not have that big of an impact.

So I ask again, is Sweeping Slash fine?

[peterthepan3]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Can you elaborate? Not in the business of going by how things 'seem to be'.

Is the damage what functions fine? The range?

[Athergic]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Can you elaborate? Not in the business of going by how things 'seem to be'.

Is the damage what functions fine? The range?

what is the problem with the ability? I know it hurts on squishy targets, and armor debuffed targets.
It's like a shotgun blast, you use when fighting in melee, because it's a melee ability, it's supposed to be filler, proper for when closing the gap on a target before starting a rotation, or when a target is getting out of range.
it can hit your target and people around and behind. Giving it a reduced cool down is just going to make ASW stronger in small scale. The 5 second cooldown would be fine if sweeping slash wasn't on the crit tactic.

[Athergic]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Wat, how is a 9 point mastery ability on a 10 second cooldown performing almost the same damage as a 0 second cooldown core ability on a class that doesn't lack mdps tools fine?

1363 sweeping slash crits, 1013 demo crits calculated on a 2800 armor target. This is with Wrist Slash, Vengeance, No Respite, BiS gear and overcap strength to compensate for mara Ferocious Assault. Mara number is with BiS gear, Ferocious Assault, Mutated Aggressor, Piercing Bite, Growing Instability. In adition to the damage not being that far apart, the mara equivalent can be paired with AP drain and/or morale drain, and is a lot easier to land as mara has tools like charge and snarebreak. Demolition range can also be extended with a tactic.

Should add that right now, you can get off that 1363 crit once every 30 seconds, as vengeance is required, while demolition is spammable and can effectively be used 9-10 times every 30 seconds with almost those numbers, Ferocious Assault being a 60 sec CD and 20 sec duration, though a strength modifier of 0.2 and the fact you go over softcap with it anyways makes it not have that big of an impact.

So I ask again, is Sweeping Slash fine?

Yes it is. You are comparing an aoe ability, in a single target melee tree, on a ranged dps, to an aoe ability on a melee dps from an aoe oriented tree. If you wan't better aoe damage, switch to skirmish stance, it's part of the classes mechanic, different stances for different situations.

[lefze]

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Wat, how is a 9 point mastery ability on a 10 second cooldown performing almost the same damage as a 0 second cooldown core ability on a class that doesn't lack mdps tools fine?

1363 sweeping slash crits, 1013 demo crits calculated on a 2800 armor target. This is with Wrist Slash, Vengeance, No Respite, BiS gear and overcap strength to compensate for mara Ferocious Assault. Mara number is with BiS gear, Ferocious Assault, Mutated Aggressor, Piercing Bite, Growing Instability. In adition to the damage not being that far apart, the mara equivalent can be paired with AP drain and/or morale drain, and is a lot easier to land as mara has tools like charge and snarebreak. Demolition range can also be extended with a tactic.

Should add that right now, you can get off that 1363 crit once every 30 seconds, as vengeance is required, while demolition is spammable and can effectively be used 9-10 times every 30 seconds with almost those numbers, Ferocious Assault being a 60 sec CD and 20 sec duration, though a strength modifier of 0.2 and the fact you go over softcap with it anyways makes it not have that big of an impact.

So I ask again, is Sweeping Slash fine?

Yes it is. You are comparing an aoe ability, in a single target melee tree, on a ranged dps, to an aoe ability on a melee dps from an aoe oriented tree. If you wan't better aoe damage, switch to skirmish stance, it's part of the classes mechanic, different stances for different situations.

Kinda the point here, it shouldn't be in the tree to begin with. But as it is, and it sucks, and rema king it was declined, it needs to be changed. And frankly, even tactics like Wave of Chaos that are tied to no particular tree do higher dps than this skill, the skill being in a tree not meant for AoE has nothing to do with a 9 pointer AoE sucking when it has no utility. And calling assault SW a ranged dps is plain wrong, while that might be the idea, in all practicality that is a false assumption.

That being said, demolition being tied to monstro still doesn't mean it's not a core skill useable in any spec, and if anything that fact alone means SS deserves a bigger buff than proposed here.

Edit: Typos, phone messed it up. Missed your first post.

It seems to function fine, and has increased crit damage as well with tactic.

Can you elaborate? Not in the business of going by how things 'seem to be'.

Is the damage what functions fine? The range?

what is the problem with the ability? I know it hurts on squishy targets, and armor debuffed targets.
It's like a shotgun blast, you use when fighting in melee, because it's a melee ability, it's supposed to be filler, proper for when closing the gap on a target before starting a rotation, or when a target is getting out of range.
it can hit your target and people around and behind. Giving it a reduced cool down is just going to make ASW stronger in small scale. The 5 second cooldown would be fine if sweeping slash wasn't on the crit tactic.

Did you read the post? I already explained this. The skill has absolutely no use in small scale, a buff for the ability might give it one, in the form of functioning exactly like you described, for hitting people barely out of range, and as a filler while approaching range.

However, as was explained in my post above, it is not even remotely close to being considered a fine ability at the moment, and it does not work for any purpose. If it was a core skill, I would leave it alone, but it's not, so it's just taking away a mastery from the spec for no reason. You call it a filler, but it's not, Demolition is a filler. This is a speccable 9 pointer, there is a huge difference, especially when the filler in question outperforms the 9 pointer to the extent it does. Also think I neglected to mention that Demolition eventually surpasses Sweeping Slash in damage as the armor on the target rises, and I'll repeat that this is on a 0 second CD core filler competing with a 9 point mastery since you seem to not get that point.

[dansari]

Let's keep it civil

[blackwatch1508]

Both a decrease in cool down, and some extra range would be nice. I'd swear it doesn't go 25 ft, but I'm not the best judge of range in RoR. I don't see it turning ASW into aoe threats. It would add more to my melee rotation in group combat. Less GS spamming lol.
Currently I only really use it as an opener, in a crowd, or against someone just out of range.