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[Chosen] Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

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Smellybelly
Posts: 298

[Chosen] Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#1 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:21 pm

The client control offers so many possibilites and i think the major changes people want or expect for Chosens is the auras, but im pretty damn sure the devs have plans for auras so lets look at some other things that are generally avoided in favour of stronger specs, i would like to talk about ~

Seeping Wound = A low damage DoT that lasts for 9 seconds, with Tainted Wound tactic all direct healing inflicts 225 dmg to the healer in question.
Problem: A bad tactic for a bad skill, barely worth using ever. Goes for both the skill and the tactic itself.
The entire tree is usually ignored in favour of 2H builds or SnB/Oppression builds.
Suggestions:
A: Increase DoT damage to somewhat more meaningful values, its a curse wich can still be cleansed.

B: EDITED: OLD Healdebuff [SCRAPPED] NEW: Let the dot spread to anyone healing the target. Same damage and same duration, cannot be refreshed until it has run its full 9 second duration. Maximum of (insert arbitary number for example 3 or up to 9 perhaps for warbands)

With Tactic Tainted Wound add:

A: Make it stack up to three times and make the duration longer, adjust damage to match. If its 3 stacks and 9 second duration then the chosen would spam this and not have time for other skills, i propose you increase the duration and stretch the dmg done out for the new time it lasts. Perhaps also let the tactic dmg stack 3 times to help taking out healers.

B: Make it a life leech effect, perhaps like the SM tactic Blessing of Heaven.
A dot on your target makes it heal anyone attacking that target for X over X seconds.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
EDITED
*NEW* C Let the tactic add a dot component to A: Ravage // B: Blastwave (aoe application for warband pressure and could be considered "useless fluff")
C: Anyone affected by Seeping wound take Increased damage from Touch Of Palsy ticks
Last edited by Smellybelly on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic [Close Date 23rd July]

Post#2 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:02 pm

Seeping Wound:

a) I would be open for this. Could you provide some screenshots/footage of the ability as it is now, i.e. how much it hits for? If the damage were increased, I would possibly suggest giving the ability a 5 second CD.

b) Can't give a core ability with no CD an incoming heal debuff component - particularly on a tank archetype. IB and BG are the only tanks that provide a strong heal debuff, but it's: a) outgoing; b) requires a tactic slot; and c) sort of a BG/IB niche.


Tainted Wound:

a) This sounds reasonable, but would it make the tactic worth taking? A 3-stacked DoT would have to be pretty strong (especially if, as you suggest, the non-tactic version is underperforming already).

b) Sounds reasonable. Not sure how good it would be personally, or whether I would ever take it, but it's up to you, the people, to give your thoughts on that.


With that being said, I will open this Discussion to discuss: a) should Seeping Wound damage be increased?, and b) Both components of your proposal concerning the Tainted Wounds tactic.

Close date in 2 WEEKS from now (23rd July).
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#3 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:27 pm

i had in mind something similar for the tactic aswell which is the real burden while the dot is fine since is the generical tanks average dot.

Solution A dont really fix the problem, random dmg.... it only work if you are focussing a healer so is very very situational (1/4 archtype) and also gona only work on the healer which heal himself (if other healers heal him and he detaunt/pot/ cleanse / hot /put absorb etc and keep move) it will hit max every 3-4 ; in biggerscale it will be like totally useless unless you flank on healers which is basically 70% job done.... way too much situational.

Solution B which is to fix tact regarding heal is alredy better tough the sm heal is useless and is alredy incorporated in heal aura if you want a full heal effect, plus loose hold the line in rvr (because is the only place where such effect would be use is there) for apply a dot which probably gona like to be parry is not optimal for a low end result (aka sm dont spec it why chosen players should?)

the tactic COULD INSTEAD be rework as an outgoign heal debuff so that any healer that heal the target get the heal debuff (but not target to which you apply seeping wound) , basically it's a spreading curse, very fit and more usfull than those random dmg. Value should be low since it should stack with bg heal debuff etc plus also can work in conjunction with heal debuff aura;

the point would be throw a bone to synergy with bg/we in small scale and a bone to spec for the tactics in discord mastery for orvr toying with heal debuffing.

if i had to give reason why this solution is ok i would say because KOBS have a pumping heal buff which stack with other heall buff in game, so a bit of stacking heal debuff could only balance it out and not be op (not appealling to mirror to get the debuff just saying it wont be op compared to other realm stacking rules)

the best value would be half the value of the kobs focussed mending so like 7% since because unlike kobs tactic buff it's not limited to group member only and in certain feets (aura requrement is a joke since that aura is pure gold due giving off free ap lol so i wont even bring thatr argument up because is a joke), but it will instead jump from a target to another one. Even hitting more than 9 ppl but since the low value (7%) it should be fine.
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WARChosen
Posts: 67

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#4 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:36 pm

Maybe this will work :

A) TAINTED WOUND- If an enemy is suffering from your Seeping Wound, you will be healed 10% for each tick of damage Seeping Wound

B) TAINTED WOUND- If an enemy is suffering from your Seeping Wound, this ability has a 25% chance to spread to another enemy

C) TAINTED WOUND- If an enemy is suffering from your Seeping Wound and will die his body will explode and will cause aoe x damage and have 30% chance to spread another seeping wound to another enemy

i know B and C are simillar but B when seeping wound is active on enemy will spread and C when enemy wiil die and will explode so aoe dm have chance to spread seeping wound
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Roguibu
Posts: 66

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#5 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm

I think maybe put direct dmg to the skill.
Something like: does x direct dmg then x dot dmg during 9 secs??
And for the tactic I like the life leeching sugestión or the spreading one.

Just my thoughts.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#6 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:01 pm

While I appreciate all of the alternative suggestions, I would like it if people kept points pertinent to OP, too - lest we end up discussing 3000 variations of OP by page 2. =P
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lefze
Suspended
Posts: 863

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#7 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:06 pm

Can add that the tactic stacks with itself when applied by several chosens. It is potentially devastating, but seeing as there is no one left to really use it I dunno how relevant that is.
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Luuca
Posts: 1204

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#8 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:27 pm

Smellybelly:

The entire tree is usually ignored in favour of 2H builds or SnB/Oppression builds.

Reply: Note that entire tree is not ignored as it is the Resists Buff/Debuff tree and also has Quake at 10 points. But yes, the tactic Tainted Wound is lackluster at best.

Suggestions:
A: Increase DoT damage to somewhat more meaningful values, its a curse wich can still be cleansed.

Reply: Not a bad idea if you are talking about increasing the damage to healers only. The base damage for a spammable dot is in line with the rest of the game. If you are talking about the Tactic "actual" damage to healers (who aren't on the ball with cleansing) is easily mitigated and hardly noticed. The tooltip states "225 damage" but in my experience, it's mitigated down to around 150 damage. I do not believe it can crit. Upping the damage by 40%-50% to healers when the tactic is in use could make it worthwhile without breaking the game.


B: Add a incoming heal-debuff

Reply: This already exists in the form of an Discordant Turbulence "causing healing on any foes within 30 feet to be 25% less effective" I don't think a second heal debuff is needed.

With Tactic Tainted Wound add:

A: Make it stack up to three times and make the duration longer, adjust damage to match. If its 3 stacks and 9 second duration then the chosen would spam this and not have time for other skills, i propose you increase the duration and stretch the dmg done out for the new time it lasts. Perhaps also let the tactic dmg stack 3 times to help taking out healers.

Reply: The base damage from Seeping Wound Stacking 3x would mean no buff to base damage, but it would not need it if 3x damage was in place - still cleanseable and still spammable.

B: Make it a life leech effect, perhaps like the SM tactic Blessing of Heaven.
A dot on your target makes it heal anyone attacking that target for X over X seconds.

Reply: I like this idea as the Chosen has the absolute worst self-heal in-game. I would tie the self-heal or Life Leech to using the Seeping Wound tactic AND the Discordant Turbulence Aura. When both the tactic and Aura are in use, the party members within 30 feet receive 50% of the damage done to the healers.

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I like this last one as a solution. It makes the tactic valuable enough without it being mandatory.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#9 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:13 am

I don't like the heal debuff being baseline just because it's a level 3 ability. I realize that you shouldn't balance the game around that, but given there are other things you could do to the ability I dont like that option.

Not only that, but its spammable. People hated deep wounds when it was spammable. That was a 50 and you proposed a 25, but still.

Out of the options in the OP I would say just give it more damage. Doesnt need to be a great ability just needs to be worth using.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: [Chosen] Proposal Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

Post#10 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:22 am

Luuca wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:27 pm Smellybelly:

The entire tree is usually ignored in favour of 2H builds or SnB/Oppression builds.

Reply: Note that entire tree is not ignored as it is the Resists Buff/Debuff tree and also has Quake at 10 points. But yes, the tactic Tainted Wound is lackluster at best.

Suggestions:
A: Increase DoT damage to somewhat more meaningful values, its a curse wich can still be cleansed.

Reply: Not a bad idea if you are talking about increasing the damage to healers only. The base damage for a spammable dot is in line with the rest of the game. If you are talking about the Tactic "actual" damage to healers (who aren't on the ball with cleansing) is easily mitigated and hardly noticed. The tooltip states "225 damage" but in my experience, it's mitigated down to around 150 damage. I do not believe it can crit. Upping the damage by 40%-50% to healers when the tactic is in use could make it worthwhile without breaking the game.


B: Add a incoming heal-debuff

Reply: This already exists in the form of an Discordant Turbulence "causing healing on any foes within 30 feet to be 25% less effective" I don't think a second heal debuff is needed.

With Tactic Tainted Wound add:

A: Make it stack up to three times and make the duration longer, adjust damage to match. If its 3 stacks and 9 second duration then the chosen would spam this and not have time for other skills, i propose you increase the duration and stretch the dmg done out for the new time it lasts. Perhaps also let the tactic dmg stack 3 times to help taking out healers.

Reply: The base damage from Seeping Wound Stacking 3x would mean no buff to base damage, but it would not need it if 3x damage was in place - still cleanseable and still spammable.

B: Make it a life leech effect, perhaps like the SM tactic Blessing of Heaven.
A dot on your target makes it heal anyone attacking that target for X over X seconds.

Reply: I like this idea as the Chosen has the absolute worst self-heal in-game. I would tie the self-heal or Life Leech to using the Seeping Wound tactic AND the Discordant Turbulence Aura. When both the tactic and Aura are in use, the party members within 30 feet receive 50% of the damage done to the healers.

Image

I like this last one as a solution. It makes the tactic valuable enough without it being mandatory.
A group 50% life leech seems like it would be incredibly broken and mandatory.

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