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Archtype Morales: Healers

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#1 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:38 pm

I figured with the discussion around redesigning morales, perhaps we should start at the archtype level and balance the archtypes. Then we can look at the 7 "unique" morales each class has after that. We'd also want to split up the discussion between the 5 archtypes (yes 5). My suggestions for each category try to balance many of things brought up in the other thread, but as always lets discuss!

This is the healer section of archtypal morale balances. All classes that have a direct damage morale (m1-m3) in this category would need to have it redesigned. Rampaging Siphon wasn't used much by anyone except melee WPs/DoKs, so moved it to M3 making it a reactive healing morale for the party. Divine Protection is now solely a counter to morale damage at M2 requiring you to be somewhat close to the fight. Given the loss of focus mind to slot this, could be dangerous but worth the trade off. Most higher amounts of morale damage have short durations between application and damage to allow you to use this for pre-counterplay.

Divine Favor: Same
Class Specific M1: Looked at individually
Steal Life: (Redesign) Reduces the target's wounds by 80 and increases yours by 40 for 9s.

Class Specific M2: Looked at individually
Focused Mind: Same
Divine Protection: (Redesign and moved to M2). For the next 10s, your groupmates within 65ft will absorb up to 3000 damage from morales.

Class Specific M3: Looked at individually
Rampaging Siphon: (Redesign and moved to M3). Heals your groupmates within 100ft for 3600. Deals no damage.

Mastery Specific M4: Looked at individually
Alter Fate: (Redesign) Buffs all your groupmates within 100ft for 10s. Your groupmates will deal +15% more damage for the duration. This buff disappears if a groupmate dies, but that groupmate will receive an immediate resurection.

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dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:30 pm

Opening. Let's just discuss the archetype morales rather than delving into any class specific morales yet.
<Salt Factory>

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#3 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:35 pm

Simply put, this looks like a nerf to me. Were healer morales overperforming in rvr?

Well, except for Divine Protection, but this essentially removes it from smallscale pvp and makes it infinitely useful for largescale.

Edit: I'm sorry, tired after work :D I wasn't entirely correct and I'll try to be a bit more elaborate.

Steal Life: This is a very oppressive ability because it stacks with marauder and blackguard wound debuffs. It could potentially drop the hp of a target to 3k or 2.5k hp, making them essentially one shottable within one second with absolutely not chance of survival. It will blow Divine Favor out of the water forever and change smallscale balance to favor tanky medium damage that compensate their lack of damage with heavy wound debuffs and one shot any target, guarded or otherwise (if guard can even be switched in time). And these are just the side effects I could get off the top of my head, I'm sure it would cause much more problems in-game. I think this is too much

Divine Protection: I think Steal Life was made to compensate for the nerf this change brings to smallscale, because it was a very strong tool against melee trains, 4600 shield. Mostly for small scale pvp. This will be exceptionally useful for largescale rvr, especially if given a decent duration.

Rampaging Siphon: It's okay, useful in all scenarios, but I would have personally prefered Divine Protection because you could use it beforehand to push for an objective. Probably quite a bit better in large scale however, as it heals damage in general, not just melee specific damage.

Alter Fate: I get it, it is a better ability this way, but honestly, I would have prefered a defensive shield. I simply think there's such a thing as having too much damage in a single game, to the point where it's not reactive. It has the same issue, imo, as Steal Life. It will be very oppressive and used mostly for the damage. The rezz effect won't get any better even in this form, unless it restores the target back to like 50-60% hp, which again, I feel is too oppressive.

I would suggest trying to do less radical changes from what we have already, so we can work towards something new in small steps, not just leap forward and crash land.
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#4 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:08 pm

i think that divine protection possible change should be evaluate after and if offensive morales get changed first.

for simple reasons like if m2-3 offer more counterplay then divine protection could be changed but it should be used to counter m4 and not m2-m3. Most likely rewamped but left in slot 3 then.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#5 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:14 pm

Jesus why?

An alternative would be looking at the 5-10 aoe DD morales that are low hanging fruit.

Morale aoe DDs = M4s?
Last edited by Bozzax on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#6 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:22 pm

Not a huge fan of losing divine protection, for reason other people have already pointed out. You lose something in a smaller scale and there are better ways to combat morale bombs if they are that much of a problem.

Alter Fate change could be nice. Though I don't think the 15% damage is necessary and I don't think the buff should go away if someone dies. Just make it a short duration group self rez. Work on the duration time and health they come back with to balance.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#7 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:55 pm

live4treasure wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:35 pm
Spoiler:
Simply put, this looks like a nerf to me. Were healer morales overperforming in rvr?

Well, except for Divine Protection, but this essentially removes it from smallscale pvp and makes it infinitely useful for largescale.

Edit: I'm sorry, tired after work :D I wasn't entirely correct and I'll try to be a bit more elaborate.

Steal Life: This is a very oppressive ability because it stacks with marauder and blackguard wound debuffs. It could potentially drop the hp of a target to 3k or 2.5k hp, making them essentially one shottable within one second with absolutely not chance of survival. It will blow Divine Favor out of the water forever and change smallscale balance to favor tanky medium damage that compensate their lack of damage with heavy wound debuffs and one shot any target, guarded or otherwise (if guard can even be switched in time). And these are just the side effects I could get off the top of my head, I'm sure it would cause much more problems in-game. I think this is too much

Divine Protection: I think Steal Life was made to compensate for the nerf this change brings to smallscale, because it was a very strong tool against melee trains, 4600 shield. Mostly for small scale pvp. This will be exceptionally useful for largescale rvr, especially if given a decent duration.

Rampaging Siphon: It's okay, useful in all scenarios, but I would have personally prefered Divine Protection because you could use it beforehand to push for an objective. Probably quite a bit better in large scale however, as it heals damage in general, not just melee specific damage.

Alter Fate: I get it, it is a better ability this way, but honestly, I would have prefered a defensive shield. I simply think there's such a thing as having too much damage in a single game, to the point where it's not reactive. It has the same issue, imo, as Steal Life. It will be very oppressive and used mostly for the damage. The rezz effect won't get any better even in this form, unless it restores the target back to like 50-60% hp, which again, I feel is too oppressive.

I would suggest trying to do less radical changes from what we have already, so we can work towards something new in small steps, not just leap forward and crash land.


Steal Life......I had issues trying to come with ideas. That's what I settled on just to make the point it needs to be changed. You bring up fair points. I invite you (or another) to think of something that could fit into M1 and compete with divine favor (in at least some content)

Alter Fate would compete with each of your mastery M4s (which mostly suck for healers) but looking class specific morales would be step 2 or 3. Wanting a huge absorb at M4 would be as simple as adjusting the numbers on the ones that exist (Like AM).

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catholicism198
Posts: 1092

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#8 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:00 pm

No.
A thousand times no.
Alter Fate needs to be reworked/looked at because it does not work, but for the most part, no.

Divine Protection as a morale defense would need to have its duration increased and cannot show a visual effect, or be displayed on buffhead...otherwise the enemy will simply just want a few more seconds before they bomb you.

Changing that, as others have said, would also nerf small scale pvp.

Alternative solution: Divine Protection/Divine Intervention (m2) absorbs Morale damage
Divine Protection MK II/Divine Protection (m3) Keeps the current effect

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#9 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:34 pm

Life steal ticks for 150 damage. Perhaps you could simply double the duration, making the total HP stolen 1200 instead of 600, thereby increasing the duration during which you can deliver the pressure. Alternatively, you can increase the duration by 50% instead and make each tick for 225 damage instead of 150, so that it at least deals about the non-crit damage of a dot. Something like that, perhaps. Maybe steal a bit or ap over the duration too, to give it an auxiliary effect to make the morale more appealing. Problem is, healers usually have Divine Favor, Class Morale 1 and then this. There's nothing you can feasibly do with this short of making it overpowered or steal aoe hp, healing your allies on an aoe for the amount stolen, to make it a viable option.

It's mostly used in pve to contribute a bit of damage to high damage mitigation bosses, I guess,
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Archtype Morales: Healers

Post#10 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:55 pm

Are you seriusly gona debate the importance of steal life a moral one?!, ready after 2 sec in combat? Is a hybrid moral ok as it is, since the pure heal moral heal for 1200 this both dmg and heal for a total.of 1250 ( 900 dmg and 450 heals)..../fine.... I dont see evidence for change this as tooltips is perfectly in line.
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