Since SH class is something devs looking at(especialy path of Stabbin), I think there are also ranged abbilities which needs attention.
1st is Poison Areer from Big shooting tree. Tooltip dmg is ok, but in real life dmg mittiation is so high, that it bring its usefullnes behind Plink spam. Compared to snipe or magus bolt which has also 3s cast and contribute from weapon skill and armor debuff from turret or magus ST rezist debuff from horror pet,SHs poison arrer doesnt contribute from weapon skill nor armor debuff and also SH doesnt posses corporal debuff. From my point of view was the reason why SW recieved rezist bypasss tactic,but original devs forgot to give somethink also to SHs.
I propose change tactic: I Feelz Yer pain(50 ap if crit with big shooting abbility) in to 100% rezist bypass for Poison Areer.
2nd is Behind Ya! For its 14! mastery points requirement it doesnt bring anything special than insta cast. 10s CD, positional requirement(only from behind) and its verry low tooltip dmg(only about 45% dmg of Shadow warriors Flanking shoot which has also critical chance formula in it) makes it weak for its cost.
I propose increase its dmg value and give it some special effect(critical chance, critical dmg) to make it worth 14 mastery points.
Edit: Since SW recieved his 100% rezist bypas back, I propose mirror it to SH with same value.
Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
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Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Moving to Discussions. I suggest focusing on Behind Ya!, and maybe something else for Poison Arrer that is not a 100% mirroring of Enchanted Arrows.
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Poison Arrer
Lategame resists are well within 40-50% and as a result slotting Enchanted Arrows basically makes Festering Arrow hit twice as hard. Squig Herder has nothing like this, and nothing besides improving the relative damage output of Poison Arrer is going to put the skill in the same ballpark as Shadow Warrior's Festering Arrow. There's more ways to do this than to simply mirror the resist bypass tactic. Base damage could be upped so the final damage after resistances is roughly the same as Festering Arrow's with Enchanted Arrows slotted. Things such as AP cost and cooldown can be fiddled with to balance out not having to slot a tactic for it.
Behind Ya!
I still do not know what niche this skill is supposed to fill. The damage is weak and the conditions are restrictive. At the very least, the damage should be increased to even merit spending a point on it. Maybe add an increased crit modifier?
Personally, the main changes I want to see for Squig Herder are tweaks to Path of Stabbin' and fixes to the overall clunkiness of Squig Armor and the according playstyle.
Lategame resists are well within 40-50% and as a result slotting Enchanted Arrows basically makes Festering Arrow hit twice as hard. Squig Herder has nothing like this, and nothing besides improving the relative damage output of Poison Arrer is going to put the skill in the same ballpark as Shadow Warrior's Festering Arrow. There's more ways to do this than to simply mirror the resist bypass tactic. Base damage could be upped so the final damage after resistances is roughly the same as Festering Arrow's with Enchanted Arrows slotted. Things such as AP cost and cooldown can be fiddled with to balance out not having to slot a tactic for it.
Behind Ya!
I still do not know what niche this skill is supposed to fill. The damage is weak and the conditions are restrictive. At the very least, the damage should be increased to even merit spending a point on it. Maybe add an increased crit modifier?
Personally, the main changes I want to see for Squig Herder are tweaks to Path of Stabbin' and fixes to the overall clunkiness of Squig Armor and the according playstyle.
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ
[Phalanx]
Thlayli - SQ
[Phalanx]
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Spoiler:
- Stinkyweed
- Posts: 462
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Spoiler:
Behind Ya should be set up as it was in 1.4.7. I do not know why it didn't come over like the SW version did. Instead of a direct damage increaser, maybe a small DoT added to compensate for the lower dmg.
Patch 1.4.7
""Behind Ya!" - Ability will scale the chance to deal critical damage upward based on the amount of life lost by the target!"
An elemental bypass for Poison Arrer and Explodin Shot may be a good compromise. May need to be careful with the impact on Indigestion...AoE Corp damage....would need testing to check if op.
Alternatives, a tactic that makes is 1/2 cast time, 1.5secs instead of 3, and cooldown every 3 secs instead of 5?
I also think AimQuick on both classes need to have AP penalty reduced to 10...for AP starved classes +20 was always too much.
Last edited by Stinkyweed on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Prowl WE.85
Blob Chop.82
Babaganoush Sham.7x
Negative Creep Z.5x
Motley Crue WH.5x
Scratch WL.3x
Don't fall asleep...don't fall asleep...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP7uxesyQWo
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Spoiler:
Let's remember what we are discussing, please.
I am not shutting down the idea - I'm saying that it cannot work in tandem with the kiting skills the squig has. If it is reworked in a way that opting for an elemental bypass gimps kiting, turning the squig into a stationary heavy glass cannon, by all means! Every order player will kiss a dev passionately if it means less ganking and more group oriented squigs.
Last edited by Vandoles on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
I agree that there should be meaningful tradeoffs, no matter the class. But as opposed to putting this in the class vs class basket, I would prefer seeing these tradeoffs in mastery trees, which was their original intent anyways. If I spec Big Shootin', I should be fairly lousy at kiting, but have good nuking options. Vice-versa for Quick Shootin'. Same for Shadow Warrior, you get the idea.Vandoles wrote:Spoiler:
Additionally, I would like to point out that there are many situations where kiting is not a viable option, just as there are many situations where standing still is not an option.
Spoiler:
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ
[Phalanx]
Thlayli - SQ
[Phalanx]
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
So we agree on the philosophy. But my specific point is also the 30% speed bonus. A scout SW, once engaged, has a near impossible chance to disengage and go spam festering arrow.
The 30% speed buff cannot coexist with difficult to cast high damage single target nuke, that becomes easy to use with said speed buff.
The 30% speed buff cannot coexist with difficult to cast high damage single target nuke, that becomes easy to use with said speed buff.
Last edited by Vandoles on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
The next one who says "but Shadow Warriors..." is getting a warning. Stick to discussing the following:
- Poison Arrer: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?
- Behind Ya!: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?
- Poison Arrer: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?
- Behind Ya!: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?
Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)
Penril, I'm merely saying how the suggestion (a bypass of resistances single target nuke) is balanced - by making it difficult to use. On a squig, unless they lose the speed bonus or other strong kiting skills, a bypassing resistances single target nuke is overpowered due to also being easy to use.
The comparison I used was to ease the understanding of my point. I'm sorry if it triggered an off-topic discussion.
But my point on a single target nuke bypassing resistances AND a 30% speed buff being too strong together remains.
The comparison I used was to ease the understanding of my point. I'm sorry if it triggered an off-topic discussion.
But my point on a single target nuke bypassing resistances AND a 30% speed buff being too strong together remains.
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