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[Withdrawn] Phantom's blade

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
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Sigimund
Posts: 658

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#41 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:39 am

Completely agree that a morale drain would tie into realm balance which is bigger than one lame ability.

Gear progression helps all classes equally and still some are less good than others for AP. Everyone has access to pots but somehow Vaul spec and Isha spec AMs have a completely different experience managing AP, for example. I think one of those less AP efficient classes is the SM itself so this would upgrade a meh ability, give some group benefit and solve a gripe within the class itself all at the same time. An AP proc is also one of the very few options that is not affected by stacking issues.

Superpunt proposal got withdrawn, apparently SMs are too overpowered for their own good now (actually this issue is being tackled in a different proposal). I know that flavour is secondary to balance but adding a shield requirement does not appeal. AOE snare proc could be a bit too much of an advantage and the class does already have a ST snare and M2 AOE snare.

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Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#42 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:53 am

Proposal:

Phantom Blade procs a mass cleanse (single effect removed), affecting party members within 50 feet. This is a secondary effect added to the already existing ability and Phantom Blade remains unchanged in all other respects. The secondary effect would have a 7 sec ICD and would NOT effect the SM who has the ability slotted (although a second SM in the same party could cleanse the first SM and vice versa).

If this proved too powerful the ICD can be made 10 sec, the range could be reduced to something like 20 feet, or both.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#43 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:24 am

Eathisword wrote:
Spoiler:
1- PB becoming morale drain would unduly promote double SM to seriously counter chosen and BO = bad idea. Even in WB play, enough SMs could prevent any kind of morale push.

2- PB becoming an AP thing would not help much. As gear will progress most classes will become AP sufficient.

3- PB becoming group bubble. As per Aza, you would need a massive bubble to be worthwhile. 1 of 2 things would happen : 1- with a low value it would only be decent against fluff AoE like magus, 2- if the value was strong enough to be worthwhile in FF situation, it would become retardedly OP vs AoE.

4- Wounds debuff : redundancy with Nature's Blade : it would steal a stat, just a different one. Its a decent idea though. Better than the others imo.
Proposition : If possible, tied to the use of a shield, AoE snare on proc for 5s. This would slowly start to break the absolute necessity of having a knight, especially if a superpunt is added in Vaul. (I know, I know, it would free a tactic slot for a knight as 2nd tank, but having 2 SnB tanks would have the drawback of losing lots of damage, at least in 6v6. Not sure about WB implications). This way, the traditional SnB knight/2H SM (or 2H IB) pair could be somewhat replaced by a SnB SM / 2H IB (or 2H knight).
1. I actually think morale gain from all tactics/abilities should be scaled down to 1/5 instead of "being countered".
2. You are right AP is most fluff because of KOTBs
3. Wrong it don't have to be massive, I know this because I play group absorb builds.
4. Another offensive core buff to 2h SM which I don't like.

Why not make Vaul's buffer enable "PB group absorb" as well as giving the extra self absorb?

That would beef up the group defensives/own just like op def without making the dps 2h spec even stronger.
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Rebuke
Posts: 388

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#44 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:33 am

With all due respect I think this thread is getting clogged up with posts of people who should not even be allowed to post here.

A lot of discussions leading to 6 different ideas of which 4 add to the offensive capabilities of the SM...

As I have already said my aim of this thread was to alter Phantom's Blade in such a way that it becomes a dedicated defensive group blade enchant, preferable in a 6 to 24+ environment. IT MUST NOT IN ANY WAY INCREASE SM OFFENSIVE CAPABILITIES.

Now the way I see it there have been two proposals that actually adhere to being purely defensive:

- My idea: Turning the self absorb into a group absorb.

- Altharion/Volvograd's idea: 1.4.9 wounds buff.

For the sake of keeping this thread going I hereby formally request from either Penril or Azarael to only allow discussion between these two proposals.

Should we not come to a consensus after a certain amount of time I will accept the fact that a change to the crappiest support ability the SM has will ever happen, and withdraw the balance porposal.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#45 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:37 am

Rebuke wrote:IT MUST NOT IN ANY WAY INCREASE SM OFFENSIVE CAPABILITIES.

- My idea: Turning the self absorb into a group absorb.

- Altharion/Volvograd's idea: 1.4.9 wounds buff.
1.4.9 was a wounds debuff + wounds buff and will increase the SM offensive capabilities / burst /pressure a lot.

Group absorb is 100% fine as long as this requires mid tree specialisation. Otherwise you buff the cookie cutter 2h dps with absorbs @66,7% efficiency of having a maxed out mid tree, on top of mdps.

PB being core and ability makes it highly unsuitable for making targeted mid tree improvements.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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altharion1
Banned
Posts: 321

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#46 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:51 am

I'd suggest the 1.4.9 option but remove the wounds debuff part. Make it purely a 10 second wounds buff and group heal.

The absorb would need to be 1k-2k in value to even notice it having a defensive impact, outside of 1v1.
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#47 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:58 am

Wounds buff would make the WP group buff even less usefull. And its pretty much the only uniqe thing a Grace WP brings.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#48 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:04 am

altharion1 wrote:Implement the 1.4.9 change that was on PTS from Live.

Phantom's Blade - All your melee attacks gain a 25% chance to reduce your target's wounds by VALUE0 for 10 seconds. During this time, both you and your groupmates within 100 feet will benefit from the stolen wounds. You and your groupmates will be healed by the amount increased.
Eathisword wrote: 4- Wounds debuff : redundancy with Nature's Blade : it would steal a stat, just a different one. Its a decent idea though. Better than the others imo.
Rebuke wrote: - Altharion/Volvograd's idea: 1.4.9 wounds buff.
Well you are pushing their suggestions which are wounds debuffs ;)
Last edited by Bozzax on Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Rebuke
Posts: 388

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#49 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:04 am

Bozzax wrote:
Rebuke wrote:IT MUST NOT IN ANY WAY INCREASE SM OFFENSIVE CAPABILITIES.

- My idea: Turning the self absorb into a group absorb.

- Altharion/Volvograd's idea: 1.4.9 wounds buff.
1.4.9 was a wounds debuff + wounds buff and will increase the SM offensive capabilities / burst /pressure a lot.

Group absorb is 100% fine as long as this requires mid tree specialisation. Otherwise you buff the cookie cutter 2h dps with absorbs @66,7% efficiency of having a maxed out mid tree, on top of mdps.

PB being core and ability makes it highly unsuitable for making targeted mid tree improvements.
There is a reason I only typed the word "buff" sweetheart ;)

Again you make it clear you do not know how to play SM. Not a single decent SM will wait for NB to debuff ini (1 in 5 rng chance), and then switch to absorb blade enchant.

Also your last sentence makes 0 sense to me. Blade enchants sole purpose is defining/advocating a mastery tree and corresponding playstyle. how is this stuff new to people :roll:

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Rebuke
Posts: 388

Re: Phantom's blade

Post#50 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:09 am

roadkillrobin wrote:Wounds buff would make the WP group buff even less usefull. And its pretty much the only uniqe thing a Grace WP brings.
How is this even an argument? If it is known that a grace WP is in my party applying the buff I simply will not be using NB, I can switch to another blade enchant.

Vice versa if the WP knows that there is a SM in the group, planning on using PB, he does not have to spec in wounds buff?

Pretty simple.

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